Being Interviewed By Another Podcast

Shawna Ryan

0:00

Podcasting

Description

Example of me being interviewed about my podcast Mobile Diaries

Vocal Characteristics

Language

English

Voice Age

Middle Aged (35-54)

Accents

North American (General)

Transcript

Note: Transcripts are generated using speech recognition software and may contain errors.
Hello and welcome to Span, a common sense. Generally fun and hopefully helpful discussion on parenting and parenting culture. Hey, I'm Kristen Chase. And along with Liz Gumbiner, we're the founders of cool mom pics dot com. And today we're going to be talking about mobile phones then and now and how our use cases, our feelings and experiences with them have evolved too since we first got our hands on them. We won't even say how many years ago. And as always, we will close out our show with our cool picks of the week. We'll be right back with our guests. Jumping into this discussion after this, this episode of Spawn is brought to you by Mobile Diaries, a brand new podcast about modern digital life and the mobile technology that makes it possible from the folks at T mobile stories hosted by Emmy award-winning, broadcast journalist Seana Ryan, and veteran editor and writer Jason Adams Mobile Diaries examines the fascinating archetypes personas, brilliant minds and unique stories emerging in our fast paced digitally driven world. A world that since the start of the pandemic has accelerated its use of mobile technology to new heights from the wireless tech that allows us to work from just about anywhere to the new realities of online dating to dial a therapist apps. Our devices have assumed a new pride of place in our lives on each episode of mobile Diaries, the hosts cover how devices have changed since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic. From the need to set boundaries in a mobile first world to breaking down barriers to mental health, access to finding a Zen work from anywhere spot enabled by a five G hotspot. Find them at mobile diaries podcast dot com or subscribe to mobile diaries wherever you get your podcasts. All right. So let me tell you a little bit more about our guest who happens to be the co-host of mobile diaries. So after more than a decade as a reporter and anchor in the tri-state area, focusing not only on local societal issues in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, but also focusing on the subject of digital transformation for various online publications, Shanna Ryan came to the T mobile stories team at the height of the pandemic with a distinct purpose of connecting her to technology reports with the human interest aspect of her feature work. Having to quickly adapt to a mobile lifestyle herself. In 2020 she brought with her the learnings as a broadcast journalist and two Emmys to elevate its narrative storytelling through not only her well chosen words, but her artful video skills, Shana. Welcome to Span Thank you so much for having me. Well, let me tell you, it is very strange to be on the other side of the interview chair, but I am very grateful for you to invite me here to be a part of it. Thank you so much. Well, I want to get started right away. I think this will be fun. I want us to share our first mobile phone story. So I want you to tell our listeners, I'm gonna say mine to you. So when did you get your first mobile phone? If you can remember actually, and how did that change your life? Oh boy, I, I will date myself because it's such a visceral moment for me. You know, as a broadcaster, I got out of grad school, I got my masters in journalism in 2006 and I was lucky enough to get work immediately. And York City and at the time, I mean, literally the dinosaur age, I maybe had a blackberry and were using these big rig cameras that are tapes that you like tape your news story and then put it in a tape deck to edit it. And then all of a sudden one year later, 2007, you know, Steve Jobs revolutionizes everything with, you know, these smartphones. I just remember the first time someone literally said to me, you know, you don't have to drive back to the news station when you get your story or interview, you can kind of upload it through the video from your smartphone, from your iphone. And my whole life changed. I mean, overnight my whole entire life changed. So for me, it was very much a work related moment of just like nothing will be the same again at all for better or for worse by the way. And that's very much what our podcast is about, right? And it's funny you mentioned that. So we started Cool Mom Tech in 2010. But even prior to that, we started to get all of these folks emailing us about apps, apps, apps, apps, apps, apps, right? You know, and not appetizers, which we probably thought of at first were like apps, what are you talking about? But, you know, it was like reading and doing all these things and we're thinking, ok, we can review this one and this is a good one and then as you know, right, so many apps we couldn't keep up with all the apps, we couldn't review all of them. And I think I got probably the first iphone maybe back in like six. And I remember for me it was about parenting, it was this idea that I would be able to keep up with work, check emails and also take photos and videos of my kids, which I personally had always struggled with, right? Like, you know, car a camera with me. I don't know why it was so hard to believe that we used to carry cameras around the disposable I was actually talking about with my son the other day that there's such a thing as a disposable camera and he couldn't conceive of it. There's like a plastic camera that's made out of part paper that you can like throw away after, you know, you know, they still sell them and we send them to camp with our kids so that they can actually use them. And it's so funny because then you're paying so much money to develop them and you're like, why did you just take 17 photos of yourself? They're so used to a smartphone where you can just use burst and take 17 photos and it doesn't cost any money. You have unlimited storage on the cloud. Like what's the big deal use this entire roll of film on, you know, picture of my face. I know. So, you know, for me, it was really about being able to do more and I know you mentioned it was very work related and in a way it was for me, but it was also this idea that, wow, I can get videos of my kids and photos of my kids and I can run to the store and check my email and still be connected. And so I, you know, I just look back, I don't know if you feel the same way, but we were just like, oh, this is so exciting and you know, fast forward now. And I'm curious, do you feel that people have the same excitement because I know for me and who we talk to phones now, it's such a how do you say love, hate or love, dislike relationship? What feeds you kills you? Right. Like that saying, yes, you're really hitting the nail in the head for why this podcast is so close to my heart as both a journalist looking at the facts and figures that surround our mobile use behaviors. But also the first person storytelling that we've been doing very much in line with my journalism background about how people have been affected by connectivity, by the heightened sense of connectivity that we now have. And after specifically a global pandemic that forced us into our homes, isolating ourselves where the only way to have connections to the life we once had was through that mobile town. So I think people are excited in the same way they work. Maybe it's a little dramatic. But I compare the way that we reacted to the onset of iphones back in like 2007. I compare it to what we're going through now coming out of this pandemic when we had a total revolution with the way that we view our mobile technology and how it's not just something that is fun to play with, but it's become like our lifeline for so many things. From our physical health, to our mental health, to the way that we parent our Children. It's just so pervasive. Now. It's such an interesting topic and that does excite me at least a lot. I hope it excites a lot of other people. Well, oh, for sure. And I'm curious to know more about what you've researched and reported on and of course, are speaking about on this podcast because from a parenting perspective, screen time was always not only a challenge, it was like one of those things where it was challenging to manage, but we also knew it was necessary in some ways to like help us get things done. And then we saw in the pandemic how it was so necessary for socialization, for schooling. And we saw it, like you said, in a different role. So now I'm curious what's happening now, I mean, I would say the pandemic is over, but we are definitely in a different place with it. People are meeting in real life again, kids are going out to play dates and parties and sleepovers again. What has been sort of the market change that you've seen or the viewpoint from before pandemic to now when it comes to mobile technology. Wow, each episode tackles a specific world that's been affected by the pandemic and the way that we use our mobile technology. And then we at the end of each of our episodes really look exactly what you're interested in, which is like, ok, so what did we learn? And what's sticking and helping us continue to evolve for the better and what did we not do so well? And we should kind of leave in the rear review window. And I think for me personally, one episode that I'm gonna be honest rings really true is our first episode on mental health, well-being, resources and tools, teletherapy. You know, before the pandemic, I was someone who utilized a therapist. So I thought it was really great for someone like me, you know, living in New York City, having my first baby, working a job where you're working double shifts all night and trying to raise a kid. And so therapy was very much a part of my daily maintenance. Like it was really something important to me and when a pandemic hits and you're suddenly told, well, you can't go into a therapist's office anymore. You know, what do you do? And I remember very clearly my colleague, my partner in crime, if you will, Jason Adams my co-host for this podcast. I remember when I started working with him and being that he has a New York City media background as well. We kind of sat and we're working remotely by the way, he's in Seattle. I'm with my family in New York and we're constantly talking about how are we going to look at the way that mobile technology is affecting people right now? Like how is it helping people right now? And are people being mindful about the way that they're using this technology to better their lives, to stay connected. And the first thing that we said right away is we have to focus on this issue of mental health resources. And it was incredible how much data came out right away. You know, a federal emergency hotline we found received an increase in phone calls, just phone calls by 1000% between April 2019 to April 2020. And so as experts started to dig through the data and say like what is going on here, people were citing that they, you know, they were experiencing emotional distress and the only way now they can reach out for help was through their devices. And T Mobile actually became in November 2020 the first wireless company to extend mental health resources to customers that's via what's known as the nationwide 9 88 Emergency Lifeline. And you know, T Mobile was offering for its employees, something called live Magenta. It's a well-being tool that offers anything physical well being mental well-being, financial help. And in the beginning when it started in 2017, it was primarily in person kind of stuff, right? Going to find the right providers and doctors when you're in need. And they started to offer a lot of telehealth teletherapy tele well-being resources. And I would interview our providers. And I found out like, my goodness, it's like more than 100% use case over the year where people were like, you know what I've never heard of teletherapy before. I'm a little uncomfortable with it, to be honest, it sounds a little strange, but now that it's my only way, I guess I'll give it a try. And so in our first episode of Mobile Diaries, we really wanted to dig in, by talking to a therapist to understand, like, what was her barrier to providing help for people who are at first a little reticent to use this resource because it feels so foreign. And what I think was so interesting is not only was this therapist now, full time on a therapy app known as better help. She said that more users were on board in the height of the pandemic than since the app had been around. It was just so interesting. She said to be helping clients who were really like dubious about it and that now that we're coming, as you said to a new part of this pandemic, you know, if you want to call it an endemic at this point, people who would never have used it before if not for the pandemic are making use of this technology and this particular online digital tool. Despite the fact that now a lot of doors have opened to re-enter into a therapist office. So I do think that this pandemic is having creating long lasting effects on the way that we review our mental health because we review it in the way that we do working from home that work from anywhere ethos applies now to things that we never thought of such as our mental health. And for a parent, I think that's a good thing. I really do. This is not like an ad for T mobile or for using our network. It really is for me to be able to no longer have that excuse of, I can't make it. I can't get in a car. I'm too busy. I've got my two kids and full time work to get to a therapist office. I do have time for a half hour in between my meetings to sit down and talk through a digital online streaming tools. I completely agree with you as someone who worked as a therapist a long time ago and have very dear friends who are therapists, the idea that we can just pick up our phones and let's not just think about us, let's think about our teenagers, right? Who are digital natives and who text and let's be honest, they don't call but maybe they face time, right? They're face ti they're texting with everyone. And so the for them to be able to do that with a mental health professional is a gateway for them to not only normalize this process but also meet them where they are, which is really important when we're dealing with teenagers and also make it more accessible because really and truly not just from a cost perspective. But also finding someone getting to their office, like you said, making the time when you're a busy, professional, busy parent, whatever you are is really hard. And that certainly opened up so much for so many people. I love that. That was your first episode because we need the mental health resources right now, especially. I mean, there's so much research on how much it's needed at this moment in time, but it did really open up things. You know, I'm curious though, I work on my phone, right. I do social media. I run, you know, an online platform and so my phone and I, right, we always had a relationship where it did represent work for me even when I'm like, scrolling through Instagram. But I wonder about those people who before the pandemic like, oh, you know, it's fun. I'm listening to my music and I'm on Instagram and now the pandemic is like, oh, you're checking emails. Oh, you're seeing your therapist, et cetera, et cetera. It's like, wait a second, this little thing, it rules my life. My life is that what you're finding with the folks that you're having on the podcast and who you're talking to. It really is like the string between all of our episodes is no matter who we're talking to, no matter what world they are, whether it be in teletherapy or, you know, we've talked to digital nomads and, and so on. And so forth. We're always asking them at the end of every episode, they usually have very positive things to say about the way they're using their mobile technology. But that there is always, I, I don't want to be so dramatic and call it a dark side, but there is a downside if you're not using your devices mindfully, we like to talk about it as having intentionality, right, your devices. And so we're so used to using location based intentionality, meaning like you walk into the office, you know, you walk through the doors and your intention is to work and then you walk back into the home and you're in attention is to parent, right, to be with your family and so on and so forth. And now suddenly those lines have been very blurred. I mean, like to the point of I love that a comedian once said like, thanks a lot mobile technology for now making my home just one big messy place of work life without any rules. Like there's no rules apply out. I can send an email at midnight, I can work at seven AM whatever. So there's this moment and I like the way that you position it too where it's like, you know, your phone is both your best friend and your enemy. And so the devices can no longer, in my opinion, after doing these interviews be regarded as, oh, it's just the technology that's there. If you just kind of regard it as something that's there that you can use, think of it as like your Children, right? Without any rules, you know, like just like they eat too much chocolate, they're going to binge on too much mobile apps or TV, all these kind of things. And so I like to now think about it as I need to take back control so that I'm using the phone rather than the phone using me or I'm using my connective devices rather than them using me. So that means a lot of boundary setting. And I think we're a little world weary after the pandemic. Not a lot of people have the energy to like set those boundaries after they've just like gotten through the other side, kind of of this horrible experience. But I think that if we're going to see long term benefits of the things that we've learned during the pandemic about incredible new forms of connectivity like five G and, you know, you know, hotspots everywhere. We've got to do it with intentionality. And I really love that the therapist that we interviewed for our first episode. And even to be honest, you know, we interviewed a woman who works with an online dating app called Plenty Of Fish. And she even said because we always have our mobile devices with us. We really need to treat it like we do when we set up a schedule. Like, all right, I'd like to set aside some time for my therapy, my online therapy, this is what I'm working. This is what I'm taking a break. This is what I'm just with the family eating and that applies to things as silly as like if you're using a dating app and you want to find a special someone, like there should be a schedule around using that. So you don't get lost in the endless scroll and you stop understanding that on the other side of this connective device are people in real life, right? Like you forget that. Yeah. Do you feel like folks who are not digital natives live in a space of ambivalence about their phone? Because I feel like digital natives are just like they don't think about it. I mean, I look at my kids and they're just like they put their phone away at dinner or they still double screen, which kind of makes me insane. I'll be honest is that in my near future because I have a six year old and a two year old. So I'm just waiting for the day when he's got his own laptop, which he has, which I think is crazy. And maybe one day like a mobile device like a smartphone like that happens. Oh, it totally, yes, that happens for sure. You know, at our house, it's like we're watching a TV show and then the phone is sort of next to us, right? Like that kind of double screening. But I find in general, I mean, maybe I'm just looking at my own kids, you know, and they're 17, 15, 14 and almost 12. Right. They sort of weave in and out. Now, granted, they're not necessarily using it for work, but overall there is a level of balance that they have. It's just part of their existence. They don't have this feeling of like I'm going to pull my phone out at the dinner table and show you photo on my phone. Whereas I know some folks I'll just call myself like a Gen Xer or like put your phone away, do not belong at the table, right? But they're just showing us something. It's like they would be showing us something from the newspaper. We would say that's OK. How is that? OK. So I'm wondering, have you seen that ambivalence or the resistance? And I'm wondering, are there cues that we can take from the digital natives who we are raising and apply that to our own usage, whether it is, you know, creating these boundaries or just accepting it? Like I feel like if we just accepted the fact that we need phones, we would be better, right? Just accept it, just accept it. It's interesting. I almost see it from the point of view of our third episode is called 55 plus digital nomads, you know, kind of like old dogs learning new tricks and we interview this incredible and bull woman who is a digital nomad. She works for a health care insurance company. Well, over 50 I believe she's in her sixties now and she is yet traveling the world working as a digital nomad. And I asked like, what was it like for you to learn, not just like how to use the technology correctly now that it's your everything, but also like the rules that help people do it well. And she said she learned it from digital natives, like really young kids that have grown up, you know, older than our kids, but still relatively young. You know what I mean? Like 20 years old and she would go into co-working spaces to learn tricks from them specifically, not just about the tech, but like, how do you turn it off when it's needed? What are the cues that you use to understand? Like, all right, I need a little bit more balance in my life and it's amazing how she was able to rattle off for me. Things that I didn't know, you know, mindfulness apps specifically around. I hate to use the word disconnecting because it's almost like by putting the phone down, you are reconnecting to something else. But how do you use these apps to understand both how much time you're using on a screen for, not just work but also all of your play, right? That's a problem. It's not just about ok. I'm not going to use the phone or my mobile technology to work, I'm going to use it now to relax. But when you start to mindlessly scroll through things instead of interacting with the world that's in front of you. She had some really great use tools which I'll leave for the episode that I was like, wow, there is a sense of just like you said, we need to accept that this is here and it has become the primary way that we connect with people at large. But that if we can understand how to use it to the best of our own personal abilities. So that means it's different for everybody, right? For me personally, when I get really stressed, I find myself mindlessly scrolling and I need to then enact what I have is like a monitor. It tells me how much time and it alerts me when I've gone over a certain amount of time at a certain time of day. Like if I am scrolling past 10 o'clock, I can pretty much promise you unless I'm on a deadline. That's serious. I'm not doing it to like, really enrich myself. Yes. Yes, exactly. I need to look at this tiktok influencer again. I've learned for me that when it's past a certain time and I am using my mobile device for longer than 30 minutes. It's probably a good point to be like, why don't you put this down and pick up a book and let sleep or like all the serotonin levels that are changing. Let them do their thing without that blue line. I agree. You know, understanding why you're on your phone. Right? Like, why am I doing this right now? Like, what function is this serving me? Like, am I exactly. I love that word and I know that that's something that you use a lot and for good reason. Right. Because it makes my brain think, ok, like, yes, I'm searching for Google or I'm picking up this phone because I need to take a photo and listen mindlessly sc like that serves the function. But also if you have a to do list and every day you're frustrated with yourself that you're not getting your to do list done. There could be a culprit there and it's staring you right in the face maybe. Exactly. But I love also how, when I say intentionality, I think about some of the things that you've been saying here that are really well put about, you know, we have a lot of intentionality about our Children, right? We intentionally think about what schools we put them in. We intentionally think about what screens we let them watch. We intentionally think about the news that they consume. So why don't we have that same kind of grace for ourselves when we're burnt out? And we're wondering like what's wrong here? Like what feels off and oftentimes for me at least, and I don't want to put this on other people. But what I do ask, is that people at least ask the question, like, am I using my device intentionally? Is there a specific purpose that I'm using it for in this very moment? Or am I looking for a mental break? Which is ok? But am I getting what I need out of it by going down this rabbit hole that doesn't seem to ever end? You know, I'm not getting my to dos done just like you said, I'm not consuming news times that really bolsters me and my mental well being, you know, when it's midnight and I'm reading tough news, is that really what I need in an always on culture? Sure, it's there for me. But do I need it right now? Help me? Can't it wait until tomorrow and we do that with our Children. Why don't we do that with ourselves? And that's the goal of our podcast. It's like, look at all these fun stories of people using their phones and oftentimes we pick people to interview because they're doing it in my opinion really well. Like they've done the work and often that means that they've fallen off at times, like they've learned also through mistakes and they sharing those mistakes with us so that we can question in our day to day lives. Am I doing this intentionally? Like, am I using intention when I'm using my device right now? Yeah. And that's exactly what we want to teach our kids too. And you know, we had a guest on a while ago, Jordan Shapiro who talks about sort of like a value based system. I don't think he really considers it a system, but it's this idea of looking at all the things that are valuable to your family or yourself. Right. Like, do you value reading books? Do you value going outside? Do you value quality time with your family? You know, it's different for everyone. So you really want to do a gut check and be like, are all those things happening or am I just on my phone all the time? And that's the approach I use with kids as well. It's like, you know, at our house, we value getting outside reading a book, interacting with friends, you know, making healthy choices. And if all those things are happening, then great, enjoy your phone, do what you want to do on it, you know, create content consumed. But if all those other things aren't happening, then we need to take a step back and take a look. It's like I remember when I had my first child, it's so similar. It's funny like when you apply real life scenarios to our digital life scenarios, when I first had my son in New York City, I remember I was working all the time still in news because you always aren't worried about like losing your spot. It's such a competitive business. And I remember saying to myself, if I'm putting all my energy in one bucket. How much do I actually have left for this other big bucket in my life now, which is parenting and it's the same thing with your phones and the life around you. If you are able to give enough to your buckets of, like you said, going outdoors, make in contact real life relationships, you know, reading a book. I don't mean, like you have to have a hardcover book. If you're reading your book on your kindle or whatever it is. I don't care if it's digital, but like, you know, reading something other than just news, like reading a creative, something that gives joy to your heart creatively. And yeah, like you said, then go ahead, go on your phone, consume some of the silly stuff that just makes you laugh and seems mindless. But you enjoy. I think that you're right. But if you find that one bucket is too full, you just don't have enough to give to the others and that imbalance, it's gonna catch up with you, right? We all know that after the pandemic when we were always on and felt burned out, I did a lot of reports and it's not in the podcast. But you know, one of the reports we did for our online digital publication for T mobile stories was specifically about women and working from home and how it's affecting women in specific, we called it burn out as the new normal because there's a lot of data on this. Thanks to mckinsey report, it's called that women disproportionately take on more of the child care roles quote unquote. So when suddenly we have no caretakers available because a pandemic has isolated us, women who are working are still taking on that disproportionate amount of child care. And so there's no balance there. And I think that women were the first, I'm gonna be so bold as to say and specifically women who are parenting Children were the first to have to ask questions of this imbalance isn't sustainable, like it's just not a sustainable measure. And so I have to think about my mobile technology and my connectivity and the way that I work all the time and I'm parenting my Children, I have to think about it in a different way so that I can set new rules for myself. Like if no one else is going to set the rules for me, I mean, I gotta do it for myself and I think that parents just know that lifestyle because we do it for our kids. It's kind of like we had to translate it for our own lives. Indeed. And you made such a great point that I want to end with, which is that everyone's experience with their mobile phone is going to be different. What works for one person isn't necessarily going to work for you. And I think that's why what you're doing with mobile diaries, like along with your co-host Jason is you're interviewing different people to hear their stories, hear their use cases. And so listeners can and then take from that and either say, you know what I think that might work for me or you know what, I don't think that works for me. And I think those stories are so important to hear because they allow us to think about something that we are dealing with every minute, every second of the day in many ways and shape how we are going to approach it ourselves. So I, I am just, I love this. It's called Mobile Diaries and of course, it's everywhere where you get your favorite podcast. If you're listening to Span, you can subscribe to mobile diaries there. You can also go to the website mobile diaries podcast dot com to learn more. OK. Well, now it's time for Cool, Fix the Fix of the week and Shana, you are my guest. So you get to go first. All right. So my pick, it's a little out of left field perhaps. But I really am doing this from the mindset of a parent who was parenting during a pandemic and had trouble making new friends. I had moved just at the start of pandemic to kind of like isolate and I still wanted connectivity in our episode of Mobile Diaries. We talk a lot about online dating and you know, I don't know a lot about online dating. But by doing this, I had learned that there are very mom specific apps or women specific apps for making friendships. And one of the ones that I use I think is really wonderful from my personal experience is called Peanut. And it's been kind of flippantly called like the Tinder for moms. I love it. I think that's, it's amazing. And what's wonderful about this is because the pandemic has accelerated the way that like at first dating apps offered things like video chats and other kinds of digital platforms for us to connect to people through our mobile technology. Peanut does the same thing. So you really get a sense of meeting like, like minded individuals that you can screen kind of in the same way that dating apps work, you put up a profile, you could talk about, you know, what you're looking for, how many kids you have, what you want to talk about and commiserate on. It's like a pen pal, a digital pen pal and it really, I have to be on it. It really, really helped me through the pandemic during times of isolation and loneliness when I couldn't see someone in real life or I was far from my friends and I was looking to talk about, you know, things specifically that were on my mind. And oftentimes it had to do with in my four walls, you know, the two kids that I was parenting kind of on my own suddenly, I think this is brilliant. It makes total sense to me. And, you know, Liz, and I have always talked about the challenges of making new friends after you have kids or even as a grown up, it can be difficult. And oftentimes, you know, when you're trying to make friends as parents, it's not based on your own interests, it's based on your kids because your parents does not mean that you are friends. Exactly. Before you were a parent, there were other girls, you know, out there that you just didn't have a connection with. And it's the same thing with parents and we forget that. I think you're so on the nose. You know, my husband, when we moved from New York to Seattle, just before the pandemic, he started to use Bumble. Now, I knew nothing about bumble. I had only heard about it as a dating app but he being someone very digitally savvy and someone who works in the digital world. He said to me, no, you don't understand. There is a niche that is specifically geared towards people looking to make friends and he made friends to this day. You know, that was back in 2017 to this day. They're still so close. And I just thought it was such an interesting concept and clearly Peanut has picked up on this specifically for mothers, but I just think it's so great to be like you're a parent. Ok, you struggle on the same things. But why don't put up a profile about what makes you, you and meet people like you, that you want to speak with or people not like you because you're looking to learn about things. I think it goes both ways. It's so funny because that's what we call sort of old time parent blogging was like, you know, we started back in oh five and oh six. Right. That's what it was like as you were connecting with other parents based on your writing, based on your experiences and your beliefs and your values. And so it sounds very similar. But of course, now for 2022 ok. So mine is kind of related. I as well, you know, it's, it's really just about audio books. So I've always been a long time audio book fan and I have the moments of like, I'll be listening in a car and then I get distracted and then it's like, oh, shoot, I've got because I don't know where I am and, you know, I know Liz was late to come to audio books, but now she's a really big fan and so she wrote about her experience, you know, being someone who didn't love audio books and now what changed her mind, I'm not going to give it away. Folks have to go to Cool Mom Tech to find out what exactly it was. But I have to say we shared it in our out tech, your kids Facebook group. And it resonated with a lot of people. So she's not the only one who was someone who was like e audio books, maybe not for me. And now is like audiobook books, team, audio books. So I'm definitely gonna listen. I'm so curious what changed her mind as well because I'm someone who listens consumes so much news, audio news. You know, I love radio. I love all the old school stuff, but when it comes to actual books, creative books, I have a lot of trouble staying connected in the moment with it. I'm so curious what worked for her because I really love this. So it would actually help me consume more creative fiction and non-fiction. Yes. Well, of course, we're gonna link up your podcast, the Peanut app, Liz's Post on Cool Mom Tech about audio books. Everything we live over at cool mom picks dot com. But of course, you can find Shana's podcast, mobile Diaries by T mobile stories wherever you listen to Spawn. So you can go ahead and subscribe right now while you're listening, Shanna. Thank you so much for joining me. Oh, my goodness. What a wonderful moment for me to be able to talk about the work that I love, but also talk about how the world of parenting kind of seeps into the work I do with someone who seems to have that kind of same experience. It was real joy for me. Thank you so very much for the opportunity. You're welcome and thanks to everyone for joining us for another episode of Spawn. Huge thanks to our awesome engineer John Bowen. And of course, you know where you can find us. We're on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. We have a spawned podcast community on Facebook as well as out tech your kids, which would definitely be something that would apply to what we spoke about today as well as Recipe Rescue. We would love for you to join us there. Thank you so much for listening to Span. This is Kristen. Have a great day.