From Singing to Voice Acting with Gina Kennedy

Gina Kennedy:
You can't blow out your voice every night. You know, you have to learn how to belt properly. And, and exactly same thing for if you're doing animation. You know, if you're yelling, if you're screaming, like you have to reproduce that voice every day for as long as the series goes.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
If you've been thinking about becoming a voice actor and you're a singer, you are going to love this episode with Gina Kennedy. She's a voice actor based in Toronto. She's also a musician and started in opera. Be sure to listen to the whole show. It's exciting and there's so much that you'll learn.

Oh, it's so good to see you, Gina. Thank you so much for coming on Vox Talk today.

Gina Kennedy:
Thank you for having me.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Oh, oh, I'm so excited. This is so great. Another opera singer, someone I can completely relate to on that. Um, wow. So thank you again. And as I was just saying, you have a background in opera, so you came from that world before you got into voice over. So Gina, can you help us to understand, how has opera helped you to, to kind of be more familiar and, and understand your voice better?

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah, I mean, I think any kind of vocal training, um, in this world is good, whether it's, um, you know, just demo training or, um, any kind of singing whatsoever. But opera definitely is a deep dive into how your voice works. And a lot of it too, I would say is breath work. Um, it really kind of gave me an understanding that your voice isn't just your vocal chords, it's your whole body. Um, you know, and different power comes from different places and you know, your head voice, your chest voice, all these, uh, different, uh, types of voices, which I'm sure we'll talk about later. But, uh, yeah, I mean, it just, honestly, it gave me a head start in understanding that my voice is, um, not only my voice, but an instrument as well.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Absolutely. And that's why I think so many people who come from a musical background, especially in the singing realm, um, you know, like they probably have like, you know, all the tools in place to do voice over really.

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
You know, like your instrument's there, you know how to treat it and, and you know that your entire body's your instrument. You've been used to this your whole life. So thanks for pointing that out. So many people don't realize that you literally take your instrument with you wherever you go, and it, it, it, um, it, it takes in whatever you eat, takes in whatever you drink, you know, or whatever you come across. So, so very good points there. Um, so for you, um, you know, what have you found to be the biggest difference between your singing voice and your speaking voice? Like, is, is it different the way those are produced?

Gina Kennedy:
Um, I would say it's more about the breath when it comes to singing versus speaking. Um, and I guess kind of how you think about it in your head. So when you're singing, you know, you're very much paying attention more to tone than you are to what you're saying, kind of. Your brain is kind of preoccupied with placing the voice more so than, than the words on the page. Um, obviously as you get deeper into voice acting, you're also thinking about your voice as well as the words on the page. Um, but yeah, I think you can definitely bridge the two, you know, when you are not using your regular speaking voice, you know, if you're, if you're having to do a higher pitch thing or a lower pitch thing, especially in the world of animation, that's where, you know, your diaphragm speaking comes into play and, and you know, your head voice, your chest voice, all that kind of stuff that we, we had touched on. I think that is where the bridge comes into play. But I mean, regular, everyday speaking, um, definitely is different from, from singing, you know, I feel like everyone can intuitively speak for the most part. Um, and, uh, yeah. And then singing, you know, when you understand the mechanisms of it, it, uh, can translate into your speaking voice later.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Oh, for sure. And speaking does come a lot more naturally and certainly, um, with less trepidation for a lot of people than singing does. Although I, I do believe we were all created to sing. Um, but you know, all of that said, you know, you mentioned the word bridged and, um, it is kind of interesting ‘cause in animation there is a lot of this interplay between singsong, kind of the voice and, and all the various, like the range of your voice, you just, everything that happens in animation is, is like an elastic band, just bing, you know? And, um, you know, like I, I think we, in order to do all of that, we have to be warmed up properly. So I wanted make sure we touched on that. So Gina, um, given your background in classically trained singing, I know Bel Canto for all of those who are in the know is like, if you know, you know, right?

Gina Kennedy:
That’s right!

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Um, you know, what can you tell us about a proper vocal warm up? Like what do you actually do before you start?

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah, absolutely. And I know warmup warming up can seem kind of, um, pointless maybe, or seems a little embarrassing, especially if you're in public or anything like that. And as a musician, you know, I, I often have to warm up in the green room before we start, so all my bandmates get to hear all my weird warm up things. But honestly, if you can even do it for five minutes before you start, uh, anything is better than nothing. I think when it comes to warming up, and it can be simple stuff, you know, like you can start with kind of, um, buzzing your lips. So like, I don't know, you can't really see me, but maybe you'll, if you're hearing it, um, it's like a, you know, that kind of thing. So, so just kind of getting your mouth and your face warmed up that way. And then you can even start with humming, you know, if you're, uh, if you have a favorite song in mind, you can just hum along to your favorite tune just to kind of sort of start to warm up the vocal cords without stressing them out too much. Um, whimpering like a puppy is also a good one, so Woohoo. You know, that gets, uh,

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Oh yeah, yeah,

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah. If you put your hands on your nose on the bridge of your nose, you can feel the vibration.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Yeah.

Gina Kennedy:
And so that kind of gives you an idea of where your head voice is as well. So it's kind of plays a double role there. Um, you can, uh, if you're wondering where your diaphragm is and you have never really felt it, you can pant like a puppy, and that's, that's where your power is, that's where your power comes from. So that kind of can connect the vocal cord to the diaphragm. Uh, and then, you know, uh, you can, uh, I do octave runs. Um, there's lots of between your chest voice and your head voice, um, if you can do that without a break, you know, the vocal break.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Mm. Yes.

Gina Kennedy:
Lots of us have a vocal break and it's totally okay if you have one, but working on that and working to get from your chest voice to your head voice without a vocal break will help your voice in the long run. We'll make your vocal cords stronger and will ultimately help your voice acting, I think. Right?

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Yes. And that's where the pharyngeal voice comes in. And we have this on our list to talk about. And like we all do have, like, you have a tessitura, you have a, a range in which your voice sounds most optimal, but you've also got those breaks as you said, and you'll have when you're upper and your lower register words, things just kind of like, ah. And you're like, wait a minute, where did that go? Like, you know, and it'll be different for everybody depending on your instrument. Um, but you can find ways to make it not as abrupt, you know, not as glottal if you will. So, um, you know, I know that you're familiar with pharyngeal voice and not a lot of people listening are because they're kinda like, what, what on earth is that? And I only heard about it ‘cause I went to, um, a medical voice conference actually in Chicago.

It was, gosh, it was, it was 14 years ago. So it was a long time ago. I wish they'd do it again. Maybe they do it. I don't know. Yeah. Um, but, you know, they had a speaker there and, uh, Randy Buescher was talking about this, this concept of the pharyngeal voice. And, and he and Dr. Steven Sims, they were, they were both kind of talking about this and I thought, I'm gonna write an article. So I did at one point about that. But, but you know, I haven't given much thought to it since. Uh, but I know that someone like you, Gina, who is, you know, voiced or versed I should say, in the voicing world on a daily basis and using, accessing that range without the breaks, as you said, is more than familiar. So can you tell us what it means to you? What pharyngeal voice is and, and how we can do that?

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah, I mean, I, this is a new term for me as well. Um, even though I am familiar with the different types of, of voices, uh, in the body, I, pharyngeal is a new word for me, so thank you for that.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Mm-hmm.

Gina Kennedy:
Um, yeah, for me, I mean, you know, just reading up on it, um, it kind of means, you know, going from your head, your different types of voices that are, that are in, in your instrument that are accessible to you. Um, and, and you know, if you can bridge those together, like we were talking about with, um, you know, practicing without the break kind of thing. That will optimally help. But, uh, overall, uh, this is a new concept to me as well. So it's very interesting.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
I think we shall all explore it. Perhaps we'll have Randy come on the show. Randy, if you're hearing or someone sends this to you, this is your invitation, we gotta

Gina Kennedy:
Come on over.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Gotta get on the show. Yeah. Uh, because it, it is, it was the most crazy thing. Like, I remember just watching, they had someone there demonstrating and, and I thought, oh, I'm bel canto, you know, I'm a little bit of an, you know, voice snob at the time.

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
And, uh, I thought, there's only one way to properly sing. Right? And then this person goes up and, and they start to like, they sound like they're belting, but they're not hurting themselves.

Gina Kennedy:
Right.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
And you're like, what is going on with this? And for people who are in voice acting, especially in the animation video game, interactive world, you have to find that place.

Gina Kennedy:
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
where your voice is not getting hurt. It sounds like it's like a full throttle, right?

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah. A lot of heavy metal singers, um, will, would use this, um, and, and go to, to, uh, singing coaches who probably teach this exact method because they have to scream. And, you know, if you're doing a hundred shows on tour, you can't blow out your voice every night. You know, you have to learn how to belt properly. And, and exactly same thing for if you're doing animation, you know, if you're yelling, if you're screaming, like you have to reproduce that voice every day for as long as the series goes. So you have to, and you have to reproduce it in the way that you did before. So, you know, knowing and, and it takes the fear out of it too. I feel like if, you know, the tools in your toolbox approaching these auditions and approaching these, uh, gigs that you get are gonna be so much easier and you'll be praised for it. You know, knowing how to use your instrument properly and, and, you know, encouraging, um, proper use of, of your, uh, vocal cords because then you can deliver.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
And deliver, they want you to do! Yes. Like, I was gonna say and deliver, you must, but

Gina Kennedy:
deliver we shall shall!

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
That was kind of a weird, weird thing to say, but

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
I like yours better. Yeah. Um, so yeah, and people, I think that just like you and I, you this kind of technique, people are doing it, but they honestly don't know that they're doing it. So, um, I want everybody who is confused by this term to go look it up. Um, pharyngeal as in like your pharynx, like P H A R Y N G E A L - did that without looking,

Gina Kennedy:
Nice

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
pharyngeal voice. Go look it up, try to watch videos of people doing this. It'll just like, completely be like, they're probably on Broadway. A lot of these people, they, they perform in big places. Um, but just look it up and, uh, yeah, we'll leave it at that. But so far as like the acting side, you know, a lot of people seem to think for some bizarre reason that singers don't act. And I'm like, what? Like, are you kidding me? And in the opera world, of course, singers act and, and perhaps some of the acting is better than others. So, you know, some people have, you know, it's just like being like a singer, dancer, actor. Like one of those three is just not gonna be as good as the other two things you can do. But, but you know, like, why is that? Like how can singers kind of overcome this whole, oh, well you're a singer, you don't act like, because you clearly know. I know you do, Gina, that there's a ton of acting that's put into singing. So why the misconception? And, and how can we work to overcome that?

Gina Kennedy:
I think as, uh, as people, we love to kind of categorize and, and have genres of things. So maybe it kind of comes from that idea, you know, if you're an actor, you're not a singer and vice versa. But I mean, you know, there's so many people out there who have egos, you know, there's obviously people who could do it all. So, um, you know, I, I think, I mean, especially singing, like even in the rock world, when I do my rock singing, you know, I'm a different person on stage. I'm definitely, I'm not quote unquote, I guess acting, but I'm definitely playing up my best assets and, and you know, my confidence and, you know, there is a certain level of acting that comes along with whatever message you're trying to deliver because you are trying to, you know, portray, uh, a message or send a message to someone.

And in order to do that, you're gonna give body language. You're gonna give, you know, certain tone and inflection and, and and dynamic to your voice and what you're delivering. So in a way that's a small way of acting might not be the classical version of, you know, if you're in an animation or, you know, even doing a commercial like you would say, but you know, even your own voice, a day-to-day, you know, you, you act all the time. You know, we can, we can definitely play around with the meaning of acting in everybody's day-to-day world. So I think, I think we're all actors in a way. Um, but it's just, it's just how you can incorporate your acting with your voice. So if you're singing, you know, especially in the opera world, like you mentioned, I mean, you're doing arias, you're doing actual operas, like that's, that is the antithesis of acting, you know?

Um, but when it comes to, um, delivering a script and with your voice acting and stuff, you know, some of this stuff is even just basically even just singsongy, you know, some of the, some of the scripts that you might do. Like that's very much melding those two worlds of your acting and your singing together. A lot of the scripts that I get too, um, especially animation stuff, there is often singing, um, built into your part, you know, especially if it's like a kid's show or something. Um, so you will have to kind of find your happy balance between where you're acting voice lies and where you're singing voice lies. Um, and then with your voice acting as well. I mean, we've all acted like a corporate CEO, you know, talking about the marketing thing and talking to their employees, you know, we've all acted like the cool kid. We've all acted like the mom, you know, it's, we're all doing it all the time. So I do think that if you can, it's up to you as a, as a voice actor to find that bridge for yourself and what makes sense for you.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Absolutely. It is. And as we're on the same kind of train of thought, I thought it might be interesting to, to ask you, Gina, what skills are transferable between singing and voice acting? Like, what is it that we can draw on from our singing backgrounds and apply to voice acting?

Gina Kennedy:
Oh yeah. I mean, I think maintenance is the biggest one. And taking care of your voice and understanding your voice, I think that comes from singing the most. Um, because singing is, is tricky, right? And it's, it's a, it's a mind game. It's, it's a physical game. Um, and especially if you're someone who sings professionally, you know, you have to understand how to take care of your voice. Um, so, you know, I have things like, you know, I have throat coat tea, I have a nebulizer, um, which I use when I'm singing a lot or if I'm gonna be talking a lot. You know, it's, it just kind of, um, helps steam your vocal chords. I guess you can have hot shower, same thing. Steam your vocal cords. Um, but yeah, I, I would say the main thing that transfers over is, is the maintenance of your voice and how to take care of it and how to be kind to it, you know?

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Mm-hmm. Yes. And that, uh, my speech language pathologist has actually, uh, talked to me about nebulizers before, so I know what one of those are. And, and I've seen them around because a lot of voice sound are using them. Like it's not just Gina, obviously. Like there's a lot of people and, and for whatever reason they feel it necessary to put pictures of themselves doing this online, ‘cause it's kind of like, ‘oh, well I just wanna show you my nebulizer,’

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
But for those who don't know what a nebulizer is, can you explain, um, that tool and, and how it helps you?

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I have mine, it's just kind of this little thing here. Um, but it's just a, it's, I think it's for delivering, you know, asthmatic medication and stuff to your lungs mm-hmm. originally, but you can fill it with distilled water and it just kind of mists and you have a little mask, it goes over your mouth, um, and you just breathe in and you breathe in for, you know, 10, five to 10 minutes as long as you can before you're singing. And then it just kind of helps create, um, that humidified environment inside as opposed to outside in your, um, in your room or whatever. So lots of, uh, singers and people have dehumidifiers as well in the background. So it's basically that, but just for your actual vocal cords, like inside

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Right on. And a lot of people will, will probably go the dehumidifier route or like a mister or something like this because the nebulizers are a bit pricey from what I understand. It's a different kind of solution versus, you know, just having some kind of a, um, humidifying or, or some people, um, I've also heard they might just have used steam.

Gina Kennedy:
Yes.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
You know, like they boil some water, put it in a bowl, kind of rest, you know, your face over it for a little while and kind of let the steaming, so, so there are inexpensive ways to do this. Please talk to your doctor before you do anything.

Gina Kennedy:
Yes.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
This is totally not anything that you wanna just say go out and get nebulizer, go do that.

Gina Kennedy:
No.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Like, talk to your doctor.

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Don't stick your face over steam without

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
thinking it through and, you know, doing it properly. Um, or for too long, either or too hot. But anyway, all of that said, I thank you for showing your nebulizer to me.

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
The box that you held up, I think that was quite good. Uh, and you know that you take care of your voice and it's awesome. And, and it's, it's ‘cause you're saying like you sing a variety of different styles

Gina Kennedy:
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
and some of the styles you sing, they're quite taxing. One would think for your voice.

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
So you must have a great routine for taking care of your instrument in general. Can you just share kind of what a good day looks like and then what a day looks like where you need to recover?

Gina Kennedy:
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So, uh, honestly the biggest thing for me is sleep. Um, if I don't have enough sleep, the first thing that suffers is my voice. Um, and you can hear it, you know, you can hear it when you wake up first thing in the morning. You know, your voice needs time to come back after you've been asleep. Um, and especially things like, you know, drinking and smoking, obviously those are pretty detrimental to your vocal cords. So you want to, uh, abstain from that as much as you can. Especially if you have some big gigs coming up. Coffee is another thing that really dehydrates your vocal cords. Milk can be bad. I've heard both that it's good and bad, but overall I don't like it ‘cause it makes me all phlegmy. Um, dairy in general, I try to stay away from if I'm, uh, you know, gonna be, um, doing anything big.

But yeah, basically a good day for me. I would, you know, get my eight hours of sleep that I need, um, and then give myself time to warm up. And whether that's naturally, like just talking to my partner in the house before, a couple hours before I have to do any gigs, um, or, you know, going the route, having some tea, um, you know, hot water, lemon and honey is always really good. Um, and then warming up physically like we talked about earlier, you know, running through some of your actual vocalises, um, and then, you know, doing your voice acting, hopefully not doing too much in one day. Try not to pack your schedule too tight if you can. I know we're all out there for the bucks, but, um, you know, you don't wanna over strain your voice either. And then, uh, a bad day for me, I mean, when I'm on the road and stuff, it's, there's lots of variables that I can't control.

You know, in Canada it's such a big country when I'm touring across the country, um, you know, you go from Toronto where it's warm to The Prairies where it's always snowing to back to Vancouver again, and then back again, right? So it's very unpredictable. Right. And that, and that climate change does affect how dry you get. Um, you know, all that kind of stuff. Also on tour, you know, you're talking after the show to a bunch of people in a room and nobody can hear. So you're yelling and you don't realize you're yelling until you get to your hotel room at night and then you're like, ‘oh my gosh.’ So, you know, if I know that there's gonna be a lot of shows coming up, I just will kind of opt out of the meet and greet after if I don't have to. You know what I, I love to say hi to people as much as I can. Um, you know, maybe do it for a couple minutes and then, and then duck out and then, and then again sleep is is the main thing.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Very wise. You know, like, it's so funny cuz people go to the big conferences and they go to events and, and then they like end up, you know, they're, they're basically hurting their voice. They don't wanna, like, not that socializing has to result in that all the time. ‘cause there can be quiet voice over events or quieter and not, could you imagine crazy music? Oh yeah, there's a, well you know what Gina, like I have been thinking about this for years and, and like, obviously quiet is good and having events that are noise controlled, but clothing too, like clothing should be quiet in the studio. And, and if you know anyone who actually designs clothing for voice artists, let me know because it has come up so many times. Maybe this is an idea for somebody out there, but a clothing line that you can wear in the studio that doesn't make any sound and also doesn't like, you know, it's hypoallergenic.

It's, I don't know.

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Like all these little things that you think about that would make your, you know, just breathing in the studio even better. Like no perfumes, no whatever, like, ‘cause you've talked about abstaining from, you know, drink from smoke from whatever else, but, but there's so many other environmental toxins that are out there, let alone the chill of the prairies and the you know, like the, the rainy kind of, you know, I'm trying to find the word for it, but you know, that, well, we'll say ‘temperateness’ of, you know, British Columbia. Um, but you know, like there's just a lot that goes on with the weather even.

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah, that's right.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Like to even different regions of the world, you gotta protect yourself in different ways. So in Toronto, um, I know that it's, it's not yet full, well, I guess it is spring, but, but right now, what do you do to protect your voice? Like just on a regular day in Toronto in the month of April? What does that look like?

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah, I mean, uh, well for me right now it looks like lots of windows open, which is great. Get some of that fresh air in because everything is toxic when you go into, you know, in your home. Don't look into it. You'll be sad.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
It's a bunny trail.

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah, exactly. It's, it's uh, yeah, it's a wormhole. Um, but yeah, I mean, you know, lots of fresh, uh, as much as you can get in the city of Toronto. Um, and yeah, just all the things that I had said before, you know, lots of tea, um, you know, hot shower, if I feel like my voice is fatigued, lots of good sleep.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Mm-hmm.

Gina Kennedy:
so, you know, my room is dark and lavendery and all those things to make, help you have a good sleep and yeah.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Good stuff. Yeah. Blackout curtains, people should have those.

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah, yeah. They’re great.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Awesome. Well that's really great. Thanks for talking about your instrument there and how to take care of it. Um, and so obviously, you know, as a musician and voice actor, you're drawing from a lot of rich experience and understanding, be it tone, pitch rhythm more obviously. Um, so how much exposure do musicians get to voice over, would you say? And should they be doing it more? Should they, should they be trying voice over?

Gina Kennedy:
You know, it's, I would say it's kind of the same for musicians as for anyone else. Even though you are a musician and yes you have, you probably have a better understanding of how your instrument works, tone, all these, how these things come into play. Voice acting is still its own beast. You still have to kinda get your feet wet and understand the difference of delivery, um, and, and get used to hearing your voice, ‘cause even though you're a musician, you might not be someone who sings all the time or someone who hears their voice back a lot. You know, even if you do perform live all the time, you might not get to hear your recorded voice back. And that's the difference between with voice acting, ‘cause you are hearing your own voice all the time.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Yes, true!

Gina Kennedy:
So, you know, any shame or anything like that, any embarrassment about it, like that's not even a thing. Like get rid of that first and then, you know, start to work on it. So, you know, I actually have a lot of musician friends who want to get into voice acting, but at the end of the day, you know, you have to be able to pivot from one delivery to another in seconds as that director instructs you to, you know, and if you can't do that, if you can't make your delivery different, if you can't get what they're thinking into your voice, um, then, you know, you're in the same boat as, as everyone else. So I think at the end of the day, you still need to have a focused voice over coach, practice, you know, regime, demo, all that kind of stuff if you wanna get into voice acting regardless of what your background is.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
So well put. That is wonderful. Thank you for joining us today, Gina. Um, obviously people would love to know you as well as we've, we've met in Toronto and that was really fun.

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
But I want more people to know who you are. So, um, where's the best place that they can go to learn more about you?

Gina Kennedy:
Yeah, absolutely. So my main, uh, point of contact is probably Instagram. So it's, uh, Gina Weena, very professional on Instagram, g e e n a w e e n a. Um, you can also, uh, check out my band Altered By Mom. Uh, we're there on, um, social media as well. And, um, and on voices, voices.com you can check out all my demos and my reels and all kinds of stuff on there.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
Wonderful. Thank you for coming on the show, Gina, it's a pleasure to see you.

Gina Kennedy:
Thank you for having me, Stephanie. Thanks Geoff.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:
And that's the way we saw the world through the lens of voice over this week. Thank you for listening to this show. It's always so much fun, isn't it? So thank you to our special guest, Gina Kennedy. Gina is a voice actress based in Toronto, also a musician, very talented. If you'd like to learn more about her, she did give you her website. You can find it in our show notes as well. Uh, we just are so happy that you listened to the show today. And if you're a singer looking to become a voice actor, this one was for you. So, there are more resources on the, the website. Also, if you go to the blog from, you know, transition from singer to voice actor, there's an article of that nature that I wrote some time ago. Um, feel free to check it out. So for Voices, I'm Stephanie Ciccarelli. Vox Talk is produced by Geoff Bremner. Thank you for tuning in and we'll see you next week.