Optimizing Your Website to Increase Your Traffic

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Hi there, and welcome to another episode of Sound Stories, an inspirational podcast for creative professionals and storytellers who want to improve their lives at home and at work. I’m Stephanie Ciccarelli, your host and co-founder of Voices.com

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

As a storyteller in the digital realm, you want to know that your carefully crafted messages aren’t just floating around in cyberspace, but adding value to someone’s life. But when you think about actually climbing to the top of search engine results where your content will be seen, do you think it’s a real possibility, or just a pinnacle reserve for those with endless resources? Tim Cameron-Kitchen, founder of Exposure Ninja, a digital marketing agency in the U.K., wants you to know that anyone can climb that SEO summit, and he’s made it his mission to share the secrets behind creating top ranking content. In fact, he’s literally written the book on the subject, with not one but five bestselling books, including How to Get to the Top of Google. Welcome to the show, Tim.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Thanks Stephanie. It’s an honor to be here. I’m really looking forward to it.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Well, thank you for joining us now. Tim, you’ve become a well-established expert in this field. Can you share how you developed your expertise, and how did all of this start for you?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Yeah, definitely. So I developed my expertise, not in the university or by any sort of research or anything, but actually just by kind of doing it. It’s like back to the beginning, I started as a professional drummer, and I was playing in a band, but to make money, I was recording for people over the internet. So what I had to do during that time was set up a website, and without realizing it, I was teaching myself digital marketing. I was doing SEO before I knew it as SEO. I was running Google AdWords. I was doing Facebook ads. So I was doing all of this digital marketing stuff, but all I saw was just, “Hey, I need to get more drumming business.” So I was doing that for a bit, and it was all cool.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Eventually, I got bored of that, so I started teaching other drummers how to do it. And I started teaching them how to get to the top of Google. And again, I wasn’t really saying, “Hey drummers, here’s how to do SEO.” I was like, “Well, if you want to get more drumming business, here’s what you need to do to your website to get yourself ranking.” And then I got talking to my next door neighbor, who was a plasterer. So he was going into people’s homes and plastering. And I noticed that he was always sat around the house. He was inside a lot and he didn’t seem to have much work.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

So I just got talking to him one day and said, “Hey man, how come you’re not out there plastering all the people in this town?” And he said, “Well, I really don’t get any business.” I said, “Well, what’s the deal with your website? Where’s your website?” And he said, “Oh, I don’t really have a website. I tried to get a website, but the company ripped me off and nothing happened.” So I just built him a website, and I did the stuff that I taught myself how to do. And within about six months, that guy had gone from being completely flat broke and living in his mom’s house to his partner was able to quit her job. He was able to think about buying his first house, and he was now the busiest plasterer in the town. He was employing the other people that used to employ him.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

And I was like, “Holy moly! This is crazy.” And it was a sleepy small town. It was the first website I’d ever built for anybody else. And to see this kind of transformation, I was like, “Okay, forget the drumming stuff. There’s something here. This is really, really interesting.” So I just started building those different websites for tradesmen. I took that success story and used that to sell websites to other plasterers and then to lots of plumbers, and just started scaling up that side of things, really.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

And then I was talking to all these plumbers about websites and internet stuff, and the stuff they were saying back to me made absolutely no sense. Like we were talking about SEO and they were saying all of this stuff, which made me think actually they had absolutely no idea what SEO really was, or how it really worked. So that’s when I wrote a book, and yeah, the book grew an agency, and it’s been great fun and very busy ever since.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Wow. So it all started with a friend who was a plasterer, someone who works in other people’s homes, I’m guessing. And also his friends are plumbers, and everyone’s learning about this wonderful tool to have a website, and to have a search engine optimized website, at that. So I’m glad that… it’s funny how sometimes when we meet people and we have talents and gifts, like you were mentioning the drumming, music brought you into this, that we discover other things along the way that we’re also passionate about. And then those passions change, and here you are today. So, Tim, what would you consider to be good content? And how do you identify what will work for your business?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Yeah, that’s a good question then. And talking about kind of what makes good content or bad content, I think a lot of us in the SEO world can be really guilty of treating content as this dead thing that we just need to put on a website, say, “Oh, you need an image, and you need content.” And it’s just sort of this big block of text that you just stick on for SEO benefit.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

I think the possibility with content is significantly more than that. I was just reviewing a site for someone today. And they sell these beautiful, handmade, artisan vases. And I was talking to her at a show that we did last week. And the content on their site, to describe the vase, they’ve got two sentences of copy, and it’s completely dead. It’s all abstract stuff. And the way I used to explain it to her was, imagine that I’m in your shop, and you’re telling me about this vase. You’re telling me about the story behind the design, you’re telling me about the passion and the talent that went into building this vase. I don’t understand. If I came into your shop and said, “Tell me about this vase, and you just gave me one sentence, and then said ‘Buy now,’ there’s absolutely no way I would buy it. You’d tell me the story. You’d tell me all the benefits. You’d answer my question.”

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

So that’s exactly the approach that they should be taking with their content, right? The description of that product should be gushing. It should be really long because she’s really passionate about her product. She’s really passionate about her story. I think when we’re talking about content, it’s important not to build it up into thing. I mean, even calling it “content” is a little bit strange. I think it’s just words, isn’t it? We’re just telling people about our business. And we know from experience in life, generally, that we need to tell people about stuff in order for them to want to use us. So the principles of good content are really just the principles of good communication. If you’ve got a story, you want to tell it.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Absolutely. So if they don’t even know that you offer a solution to their problem, then they’ll never consider you as someone who could help them to solve that problem. No, very good points. So when it comes to driving narrative online, a lot of businesses can find themselves relying on sales pitches and promotions. I’m sure you’ve seen it, but people will use their social media channels to only tell customers about what they’re selling, and what their company’s up to. So how can we, as people who are running businesses, shift our mentality from selling and telling people more or less what it is that we want them to hear, versus having a conversation and adding value?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Yeah, that’s a good question. And you’re completely right about social media. It tends to just be a one-way broadcast that people use. And we’re just going to pump our stuff out over and over again. And then we look at our pages and go, “Oh, Facebook doesn’t work for my business. I get no engagement.” I think it comes back to kind of thinking about the role of our business for people. And one of the things that we push people when they have a blog is, rather than making a blog about your business or you, or the things that you want to say, let’s imagine that you’re running a magazine that your target audience would really, really want to read. And when you read a magazine, you’d never read a magazine if it was just pure ads, would you? No one would read that stuff. Free ads paper. That’s the one that goes straight in the bin as soon as it comes through the front door.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

The magazines that we love are the ones that have loads of articles, and loads of content in. And the reason we love that content is because it’s useful, it’s entertaining, and it’s interesting. So I think this starts with the blog. Everybody’s blog should be basically really in depth answers to the top questions, or the top things that their audience is thinking about. So that’s one of the things that we get people to do straight away.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Go into a website like answerthepublic.com. You can type in what it is that you do, and you’ll see all the top questions that people are asking about your product or service. And that’s a really useful tool because you can then take each of those questions, and make a really in-depth blog post which answers that question. This is a fantastic thing to do because then you have something to share on social media, you have something relevant and interesting that people will actually want to read and actually want to share. But also you have something that has a really strong chance of ranking on Google for that question.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

So if I search for, for example, what is a good bounce rate, which is a metric that people use in their website analytics. Well, the post that shows up is a blog post that I wrote, which is What Makes a Good Bounce Rate. So the reason that we wrote that is because we know that anybody searching for that topic is a good potential client of ours. So listeners can do exactly the same thing. What are the questions that your audience would be asking if they’re likely to be in the right sort of frame of mind to do business with you? And then all you need to do, write a blog post which answer each of those questions.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Another good news is, as I say, that stuff translates really well on social media because all of a sudden now you’ve got something to share, which is useful and interesting rather than just, “Hey, 10% off. Click here to go to our website.” “Hey, just launched a new thing on our website.” “Hey, we’ve got this new deal on our way.” It’s just bam, bam, bam. It’s just all about them. So those are some ways that people can start to think about being a bit more useful and interesting.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Well, I would agree. It sounds not terribly engaging. If I were someone on the receiving end of just a constant stream of “Here’s what we can do for you! Here’s our next deal!” and I don’t feel like you’re connecting with me on this customer journey that I’m on, then I’m not likely to engage with that communication whatsoever. But I like what you said about finding a question to answer, basically, that people want to know the answer to, and of course you are the solution provider of whatever it is that they want. What is that website again, Tim?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

It’s called answerthepublic.com

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Answerthepublic.com?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Yeah. Just type in a few words, type in different products and services, and you’ll instantly have like 50, or a hundred blog posts that you could write.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Oh, brilliant. And everyone loves an idea generation sessions. And I’m sure that would really kick off a meeting if someone were to sit down with their whiteboard, and their markers there, and just find something that they can do right away. So along the lines of just measuring and KPIs and data. Just wondering… Now, Tim, where does data come into play? There’s so much data that we can gather now. It’s almost overwhelming to people, and not just from other people who are using a website, but also, sometimes people are using this information to game search engines. Now, how do we start to sift through what’s useful, and what’s not?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

I think when we’re looking at data, particularly on data or data, as you say, data as I say, because I’m a posh English, but I… There’s really two types of data in SEO. We have the exact data, which is actually measured stuff. So we have visitors, we have conversion. So that’s the stuff that we can actually absolutely rely on. And then we have another type of data, which is kind of extrapolated, estimated data. So lots of people will use like a keyword tool, or they’ll use a site like, Similar Web or something like that. And they’ll do some research into a competitor, and they’ll say, “Oh, this competitor has seen X number visitors from this particular channel.” Or, “This website is getting this many sessions a month from Facebook ads,” or whatever. And it’s really important to realize that most of the time, that data is complete rubbish.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

I mean, it might be in the right ballpark, but it might also not be. And we’ve done plenty of tests with some foreign clients looking at what this kind of extrapolated estimated data says compared to what that website is actually seeing. So I think data definitely has a place and it’s really, really important, but we’ve got to… we never want to trust data more than we trust our own instincts, and we trust our own understanding of our market.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

So how I look at data? Really, really simple. The metrics and the KPIs that we use when we’re working on client SEO campaigns or on our own stuff is all about good quality traffic coming in and conversion. We need to know your numbers for both of those. Now everything comes back to conversions, which is a contact form or a sale if you’re an eCommerce business, or a click to call, if you’re generating phone calls. Everything has to come back to that. So every piece of marketing activity we do, we’re looking at how does it move the needle on conversion. So that’s really important. And I’d pretty much keep it at traffic, ranking, you can use a tool like SEMrush to monitor ranking, that’s fine, and conversions. And those are really the only things that I trust absolutely.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

I like what you said about it being a mixture of your gut, but also the data, or the data, however you want to say it today, which of course I appreciate your accent. I’m sure everyone else listening to does as well. What part of England are you from, Tim?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

I’m actually from Ascot, which is a very near Windsor Castle. I don’t know if you know that, where the Queen lives.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Oh!

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

But I live up north in Nottingham now, with the Sheriff of Nottingham and Robin Hood.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Oh, very lovely. And I have been to Windsor Castle, actually. So now that we’re back to keywords, let’s just jump back in there, what do you think about making a play for a keyword?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Certainly, I think the role of keywords has changed a lot as Google has become a bit more sensible about what a… It used to be back when I started making websites, we would give the website as the name of the keyword that we wanted to rank for. And I remember building a cycle of Halifax plastering, and it was ranking at the top of Google for Halifax plastering before the site was even launched. And that was the glory days of the keyword.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Keywords are still important, but not to the same extent. So we don’t need to be as unsophisticated as just using our target keyword all over our website. We can talk in a natural way. We can mention our keyword, and we can mention variation. It’s still really important, but some people go too far, and they say keywords don’t matter anymore. We don’t really need to worry about keywords at all.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

The keyword is… it’s still a good practice because at the end of the day, the keyword is the phrase that your customer has in their mind when they’re searching for something. So if someone searches for voiceover artists, Nottingham, for example, that’s the phrase that they’ve got in their head. So we’d be crazy not to use on our website, “Hey, if you’re looking for a voiceover artist in Nottingham, we offer a really professional service,” blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So we’re still going to be using those phrases, but we’re not tied to them in the same way that we used to be.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

How interesting. The same with what we’re doing, too. We’re very much aware of what kind of questions people are asking, or what they’re looking for, and trying to incorporate that into our own strategies. I’m sure other listeners here are doing the same thing, too. Just for those of us who maybe are a little less sophisticated in this area, how can someone know what keywords they should be trying to get? Like you can say, “Well, this is my business, and here’s the services we offer. This is our target audience, or our market. Here’s some words that relate to those people.” How can someone know whether or not the words that they may want to use are actually the right ones, and which ones of those words would get them the best results?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Yeah, it’s a good question. And it’s a really simple question with unfortunately, a complicated answer. But there’s a really straightforward way of doing this, and that is bring up or email your customers and say, “Hey, if you’re looking for us, what would you search for?” That’s going to give us a really, really good starting point. And if we’re at an uncompetitive market, that might be enough. So really simply, what would you be looking for if you’re looking for my business?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

The tendency can sometimes be for people to think in very industry-specific terms. So I’m sure that this might also happen in the voiceover world. For example, I remember working with a client that did something called onsite massage, and what this meant is that they go into an office, and they massage people and that’s their whole business.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

And we said, “Okay, well, do you want to rank for?” And they said, “Onsite massage.” We said, “Are you sure?” And they said, “Yeah, look at all our competitors.” And sure enough, all of their competitors were targeting the phrase “onsite massage,” and they’re all advertising, and they all called their websites onsite massage. We actually looked at the data, and found that actually nobody knew what this phrase was other than industry people. That everyone else is calling this office massage, or corporate massage. So the industry has kind of perpetuated this myth of this keyword that actually really wasn’t used by the target audience whatsoever. So that’s why always coming back to asking your customers, talking to them. You can’t really beat that. Because you can look at data, and you can look at numbers, but you don’t know who’s searching for those things.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

So there’s a few ways that people can find good keywords. Obviously, start with talking to our people. And the other thing that you can do is use the tool like SEMrush, and SEMrush, S-E-M-R-U-S-H, will give you an indication about how many people are searching for this keyword a month. That’s quite useful. And remember it’s only an indication. They don’t know exactly. They can only estimate, so indication, so we can see how many people are searching for each keyword.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

The other thing that we can see is how much people are willing to spend to advertise for that keyword. So in SEMrush, you’ll see a column labeled CPC. So we can see, say people might be willing to spend $2 to advertise for this keyword, but they might be willing to spend $5 to advertise for this keyword. So what does that tell us about the $5 keyword? Well, it tells us that it might have higher competition, but it might also tell us that it has higher commercial intent. So in other words, that keyword is more likely to turn into a sale than maybe a $2 keyword, which might be more informational. So it might be somebody who’s in the research phase.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

The best way to test keywords though, is to use Google AdWords because what Google AdWords will allow you to do is run ads to lots and lots of different keywords, and track the leads that are coming from each one. So this is the clearest information possible about which keywords are most profitable for you, because we’ll often see that the most popular keyword, the keyword with the highest search volume isn’t necessarily the one that turns into the most leads or sales. So having that data from Google AdWords is really, really important because you can then say, “Oh, do you know what? All of my competitors, they’re targeting this really popular phrase, but actually for me, I know that that’s one of the most profitable ones. So I’m going to instead put all of my STI retention into this other phrase, which might not have as much volume, but actually for me, it’s going to make a much bigger impact on my business.”

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Well, those are great tips, Tim. And I especially appreciate how you’re helping people to get out of the echo chamber that sometimes we can find ourselves in an industry, right? As you say, there are either jargon-y terms, or just words that are perpetuated within the circle of the people who are using them, but they mean nothing. Or they’re not going to be the words that convert, or even being searched for by those who we’d like to help out. So I thank you for that. And I know that in your business, Exposure Ninja, you cater to all kinds of clients of varying sizes. Now, is it really possible for anyone to deploy the same tactics and reach success online?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

It is. I think it’s about picking your battles. We often work with really small businesses that are going up against absolute… the internet giants, companies like Amazon. And if you’re competing with massive competition that has huge resources, you can win. It’s either going to take a long time, or what you can do instead is look for maybe lower traffic areas, where you know that you can just pick a smaller battle, laser-focus it, and dominate in that area. And then you can expand out from there.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

So it’ll be things like looking at the sort of keywords that you’re targeting. So this site that I’m looking at at the moment, they’re selling vases. And the phrase that they’ve decided they want to rank for is vase. Well, I’d say to them, “It’s a brand new website, so you’re not going to rank for that, initially. That might be a two-year thing. So now let’s start with handmade vase, or artisan vase, something like that.” So we’re picking a battle, but we know that we’ve got a higher chance of winning. But we’re also choosing a phrase that we know if someone searches for artisan vase, they’re much more likely to be a customer for artisan vase than someone who’s just searching for general vase, and they’re looking to pay $10 for a vase.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

So it’s about being more specific if you’re competing in a big market. But certainly, you’d be amazed at how simple it can be to rank for some of these phases. We’ve ranked sites for all sorts of phrases against massive, massive competition. We’ve been outranking Apple for phrases, outranking TripAdvisor for stuff, even sometimes with some of our eCommerce businesses now outrank the manufacturers of the products that they’re selling.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

So we’ve got an e-cigarette client, who’s outranking a lot of the e-cigarette manufacturers for their own brand names. So it’s just about making sure that your website’s as useful as possible, making sure you’ve got a ton of content, some really useful blog posts on there, and then making sure that that site is as authoritative as possible by making sure that you’re being talked about all around the Internet.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Yeah. Well, I think the whole storytelling angle is something that really interests me in this. And just the fact that you’ve helped people to outrank Apple for something that maybe is an Apple product, I’m not sure, or TripAdvisor you just mentioned, too. So what kind of a storyteller does this company need to be in order to outrank a big brand like the ones that you’ve mentioned?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

The big brands are really good at being general, right? Something like Amazon, they have one page for each of their products, and there’s a limited amount of stuff that they can have on that page. Like, yes, they go in-depth. Yes, they’ve got loads of product reviews and stuff, which has all useful text. But as a smaller company, you can go much more in-depth with your story.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

So if you’re focusing your entire website, your entire blog around artisan vases, for example, you can give loads and loads of answers to different questions around them. You can make your site the most useful website for anybody looking for answers on vases in the world. And if you do that, and you give Google the right signals, really Google has no choice, but to rank you above even larger sites that might be targeting these phrases. But in any case where we’ve outranked a website that we should have lost to, for example TripAdvisor, we’d just gone big, big on content. So loads and loads more content than these guys could… TripAdvisor, they’re never going to be able to be us for specifics, right? We can always… We’re not back on because we don’t have so many phrases to target. They’re targeting millions and millions of keywords. We only need a couple for this particular client. So it means that you can really, really focus and go really deep.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Okay. So having a really deep focus, or a narrow focus, we’ll just say that, and then really building on that focus. Obviously, links are important, and they help to show that a website has authority, and the more people are linking to something, the more authoritative that page may be depending on their own authority in that area.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

So when you talk about outranking Apple or TripAdvisor, and having really rich, dense content that’s really specific on something that they may be writing about, but it’s really general. What else goes into this mix? Do you need to be supporting this with maybe other people linking to that page to help boost it? Or is this something that could just happen organically? You know, pardon the puns here, but could it just be something that is helpful to people in that sense. And all they have to do is create great content, and it just comes to the surface organically?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

It depends on the market. We’ve got such ranking where they don’t have very many links at all. And in those cases, we’ve picked a topic which is low competition, and just gone really narrow with the focus and written really long, really detailed blog posts. And then that can be a good way to get ranks.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

For more competitive praises, it is going to be important to get some links. Now, the good news is that links don’t have to be hard to come by. There are some pretty straightforward ways to get links, and it all ties in with being a good storyteller. But whether it’s getting a link on a site like Forbes or something like that, which is relatively easy to do, or whether it’s going to an industry-specific publication where you can write something that’s very much targeted to your audience, lots and lots of ways to get links. The links are definitely, definitely important. It’s very difficult to rank a website without some kind of conscious ongoing link acquisition program.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

All right. And so again, storytelling just comes right into the front here. So what’s one thing that a listener could do today to become a better storyteller?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Hmm. That’s a really good question. Do you know what? There’s a really good way of getting links, and it all ties in to telling stories. There’s a Twitter hashtag that journalists use, #PRRequests or #JournoRequest, and journalists will use this if they’re writing a story for their publication. So for example, a lady called Alison Coleman tweeted me, or just use the… she tweeted out saying #PRRequest, looking for entrepreneurs to talk about what they wear to work. So I tweeted her back and said, “Hey, Alison,” and I told her a story. I said I dressed up even though everyone in the company works from home. And she then got back and said, “Great. Can I send you over an email?” And we had the conversation. And I explained my situation and my position to her in a way that made it really compelling. Alison writes for Forbes. So that piece got on the Forbes website, and we get a link. That’s pretty helpful. And that really helps the SEO visibility.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

This is something that absolutely anybody can do. And the key is storytelling. Because if you look at the tweet that someone like Alison will get when they use a #PRRequest, or #JournoRequest, you’ll notice that all of the people who tweet back are saying things like, “Hey. Yeah, my client can answer this. I’d love to put you in contact with my client.” It’s all boring rubbish, right? If you just tweet back, and you tell that person a story, you tie your business in with what they’re looking for because they need an angle for their publication. If you can tie that in nicely, you’ve got a really good shot at getting published.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

So I’d just encourage people to do that, and just to keep practicing. The more you’re responding to these journalists, the more you’re giving them little angles, you’ll see what works with them, you’ll see what gets their interest. And then you’ll start to pick up some links, as well. So I think just working on reps for that is a really good way, making some relationships with some high profile journalists, but also just practicing your story and finding out which parts of your story most resonate with these people.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

So Tim, we’ve been talking an awful lot about your business, Exposure Ninja, but we’ve not actually talked about your website, and where people can go to learn more about you. Could you share a bit more with us about that?

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

Yes. So you can go to exposureninja.com, and we’ve got a blog on there which gives you so much stuff about how to improve your website ranking, different things to look at, how to know if your website is performing well, and all that type of stuff. And so I encourage people to check out that.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

There’s also something on exposureninja.com called the Free Website Marketing Review. And if you fill in your details here, there’s a short questionnaire to fill in, one of our team will spend half an hour filming you a video, showing you how to improve the performance of your website, both how to generate more leads from the site itself, but also how to increase the traffic that you’re getting to the site. So it’s a really, really in-depth video. It’s not like one of these free website reviews where you just type in your website, and up comes a list of things that you’re doing wrong. It’s actually someone who really knows their stuff inside out, reviewing your website and sending you a custom video. So I encourage people to check that out if you want to generate more leads and sales. And it’s a really proactive thing that you can do to do that. And it’s all plain English, as well. So you don’t have to be some kind of a coding geek to understand it all. So that’s exposureninja.com.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

And you can reach me… My Twitter handle, and my handle for most places is timninjakitchen. So tweet me out. Let me know if you’ve listened to the show, and yeah. Looking forward to talking to people.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Wow. That’s really valuable. I’m thinking almost everyone who’s listening to the show hopefully will take you up on that. And if you get a lot of requests, just be sure to let us know. That’d be interesting. But I want to thank you so much, Tim, for being on the show, and for sharing your wisdom, and also for teaching us about how we can be better storytellers online to help our websites rank better.

Tim Cameron-Kitchen:

No worries, Stephanie. It’s been an absolute pleasure.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Sound Stories. If you like what you heard, you can subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Stephanie Ciccarelli:

Thanks for listening. We hope to have you back for our next episode of Sound Stories.