Winging It Podcast - Voice Actor Story Teller
Description
Vocal Characteristics
Language
EnglishVoice Age
Young Adult (18-35)Accents
North American (Canadian-General) North American (General) North American (US General American - GenAM)Transcript
Note: Transcripts are generated using speech recognition software and may contain errors.
How are you? How are you? I'm swell. This is the weirdest thing for me to be doing something like this in this format and a little bit like, I, I don't know, I like playing in the background to so like to have a thing where I'm on the main, main stage and then to have people like yourself and everybody else who are like, geeked that I'm doing this thing and like, yes, I wanna be part of it. Like I'm like, why little, little old me? Really? I think every human being that is well, feels that way. You know what I mean? Everyone that's not a sociopath always feels like what? Wait, why me? Yeah, I, I like that clarification. Everyone who's, well. Uh I want to be all cool and ask the questions, but I've got to exit full screen and then scroll down or scroll up and it's just all in the recording. Now, hang on, let me make this seem as casual as possible. But watch, this is the acting part of this. Uh How did you get involved? So, Jenna tell me, how did you get involved in voiceover? And what's that? Experience been like for you. Well, I come from a background of, well, first I want to say hi, thank you for having me. Um, second of all. Um, yeah, I come from, I come from a background in theater. I started doing theater when I was five. Um, and just really stuck with it. Um, I was a really bad student and my teachers, um, my, my kindergarten teacher, Miss Udell told my mother try putting her on stage, see what happens and it worked. Um something about creating a story with people and um having to be present and concentrate on many things at once, I think was really helpful for me um with my five year old, a DH D diagnosis. And um I, at five, I was, yeah, I was on Ritalin in kindergarten. It was really something good old nineties. Um But anyway, so it was so helpful to me and I remember doing, um it wasn't when I was five, when I was five, I was doing the Wizard of Oz and I was picking my nose on stage as a munchkin. But when I was Mr Beaver in the um uh community theater summer production of um the Narnia, um why can't I remember the name of it? The chronicles of the Chronicles of Narnia. I was like the lost wardrobe is not it. Um What a CS Lewis thing. Yeah. Well, the other side of the wardrobe didn't matter to me because I was Mr Be. Um, um, but that was the first time where, like, you know, we spent forever figuring out the story and then like, or learning our parts as kids and then the last week it all comes together and you're like, that's what this is about. There's a whole, it all goes together. I don't know. And it just like, blew my mind and I was hooked and so I was doing theater every second of my life except for when I wasn't in band, um, until I went to college and then I got my degree in musical theater and then I went and lived my life as a musical theater artist and theater artist in general. Not always musical. Um And that was always the most important thing to me, but I also, um very much value just being a human that, um has thoughts and feelings that aren't about theater. So, um I was also a photographer and I was also a real estate agent and a bartender and well, and also those things you have to do to pay bills. Um And so I had never fully, um, you know, 100% gone into my craft as a theater performer. Um And then when COVID hit, I, like everyone else had to reassess my life and I'd always, always, always wanted to do a voiceover and I never knew how and everyone I spoke to it kind of felt like it was the secret of how to get into it is very mysterious. And I, I met Laura. Laura Zanella, Laura, a mutual friend and Laura is already a friend of mine, but she had just posted her demo and I was like, where did you get it? How do I do it? And she was so helpful and kind and inviting, which is I think what I was missing from maybe like people that I had met in my past that um I was hoping would, you know, help, help me understand where to start. And um so I took her advice and I worked with a coach in 2020 of Dece December of 2020 and just applied what I've already been doing my whole life as an actor and to the microphone and to the voiceover industry. And I felt so thankful for all of my 30 plus years of experience um because that gave me the freedom to focus my um education on the technical side of things and the business side of things and um so on and so forth. So I, I found it by way of, of theater, I suppose, but I was always a big cartoon kid like car, I mean, cartoon adult as well. But um what's your, what's your choice one? I mean, growing up Sponge Bob 100% definitely seasons one through eight are perfect. Um So yeah, I, I'd always wanted to do it and, and then I finally, yeah, started during, um, 2020 and then just kind of like, got my bearings until I went, um, by choice of my real estate job letting me go in December of 20 21. I went full time because I had no choice. Yeah. Some people volunteer for this and others get vol and told that you're moving in this direction. I like that. I was vol and told to, um, jump and leap and search for a net. And thankfully I found beautiful nets, many of them. So, yeah, I love that because I, we have the mutual and Laura apparently the way Maker Ron. That's right. I did not realize that she was your gateway drug into this very addictive community. She was, yes, she was the first person like I said, that just like really helped lay the groundwork in a way that wasn't like wrapped up in that scarcity mindset that I think it's, it's impossible not to have in theater because the, the opportunities are so few and far between and there's not as many, there's just not as much abundance. Um And so when I would meet a theater friend that had gotten a voiceover gig, they were so precious about it and I hope they're not that way anymore. But um Laura was not like that at all. Laura was just so open and kind and shared everything and she was like, here's what you got to do. Who's, here's who you gotta talk to. Here's how I did this, here's how I did that. And then like, once I was in it, it, you know, before you and I got connected in this whole community that we're a part of um started thriving. Um It was just me and Laura um and a couple of folks coming in and out, you know, from time to time, but it was really like, Laura was my cubicle mate and um you really helped me get started. Yeah, that's fantastic. Honestly, I love that. I feel like one I've become so close with this little community of people that we get to share space with and share in victories and failed failures, not really failures, but like struggles, hardships, the ups and downs and one to learn that it's so I didn't realize how recent that is for you because the spoiler alert, you're freaking crushing it. Like getting to see you is just like, Hi, hi, hi from here in the background and it's great. Uh But just how open like you carry that same energy that you're saying Laura brought for you. It's 100% how I was able to start it. Like, yeah, I, I have no time. It's, I mean, I don't know if that makes sense, but I have no time for not helping backwards, but it's true. And so much within this industry has been upfront before I even got into this. I was told how supportive of a community voiceover is how much um like you're, you're gonna find people who will be like your best friends. And I knew that was true, but I also got a tremendous amount, like, came across. I'm sure in a similar way to so many people who come into this, the I'm not gonna say unimportant gatekeeping, but the type of gate keeping that could be discouraging for somebody who's like, how do I dip my toe in? Um The type that says there's no option to dip, you're just gonna go or you're not going to at all. And it's like easing into it, finding people who are supportive in the easing into it has been just tremendously nice. Yeah, I think, I think dipping your, I think getting in the shallow end is, is a, is a healthy way for sure to do it. Yeah. And when I first came in, it was like the, you're either going to sink the money into all the coaching, all the classes, all the things uh before you even pick up the this. But the temptation of a new voiceover is always like, I want sparkly shiny technology first. So we end up doing that and then we're like, no, now I got this thing, I need to make all the the other stuff match up. So like great information from all around, but I've loved the amount of just support within this community of saying, yeah, experiment around buy the thing if you want to buy the thing, but also take the class because you need it. And here's how you dabble here. Here's how you dabble there because I think I'd imagine most of the people in our group have probably put the, I don't know this cart before that horse. It's hard to know which order to do things. And I'm a big believer and use what you got to upgrade when you can. But, um, sometimes you got to upgrade before. Sometimes you don't got nothing. And that, and that's ok. And that's the thing that I think is coolest is like the feeling of. Yeah, I have what I have and I'm gonna try with what I got like the, the feeling of you're ok to try and if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. But you tried like that encouragement of trying I think is the big thing that I felt was missing prior to this group. Hm. Yes, I think the, the biggest hurdle is the doing. I mean, my first booth was an IKEA comforter strap nailed around a, a closet. Yes, I love it. And mine is a PV C pipe thing. It's current iteration. I'm quite proud of. But yeah, it's so good. I, in the past episode of the podcast, I shared a tiktok I did where I was so proud of this thing where I had gotten a hold of like mattress foam and cut it into squares because I was like, I see everybody with squares, not firm foam. So I cut them into squares and just started hanging them all over. And it was the most echoy reverb like it sounded. And I was hoping that this mattress foam hack was good. No, the mattress foam hack was terrible. But back then Andrew did all that and was like, I'm a freaking professional like this is good. But our ears get better as we practice. I agree because now I listen to those recordings and I'm like, who is that guy? That guy? But here's the kicker. I wound up getting a hold of shortly after that, getting a hold of the moving blankets and put it up in that same room, took all that foam down and my demo was recorded in that room and it's, it's a competitive demo. It has booked me jobs. So it's like, yeah, like you don't need a ton of fancy expensive by all means get the fancy expensive but throwing it together with elbow grease works. That's right. Uh So I'm gonna pull up my questions really quick and then I'm gonna re maximize. So it looks like we're having the most. I'm gonna edit this to where it looks like we're having the most fluid conversation. Like I honestly, so tell me about a time where you felt like you were, I don't know, winging it, it could have been this. It could have been something else like where, what does winging it mean to you? I mean, honestly, I feel I've been thinking about this since I said I want to do your podcast. I feel like I wing it with everything. Um which maybe isn't giving myself credit in some ways. But, um, I am a Gemini and I have a DH D and I just kind of do things. Um, but I, I have to say that I think right now I'm in a very much in a winging it phase of my life where um in 64 days, Matthew and I are going to move across the world. Uh So I kind of feel like I'm winging it currently. Um We are moving to Thailand in 64 days and I am every day is just kind of like, ok, what do we need to do now? I couldn't imagine being in that place of just like having the date of knowing like the countdown has begun. This is happening, not just a like and I know you guys have done so much to prepare for that, but I'm just one. Congrats, I'm excited and two like you move somewhere cool and I'm excited for you. We're going to just build a weird voiceover compound retreat center. I love it. Yes, please. I want to be there eating the good food and spending time in the business. I know. I know. Um Yeah. No, I very much feel like uh, we're, we're winging it right now. I mean, we have absolutely nothing planned for when we arrive. Like, it's like we will find a place and then we will make it work. And I kind of, I've moved around a pretty good bit in my life. Florida, Virginia, California, New York. Philadelphia. So, I think I've, um, and when I moved to Philly it was very much that too. It was like, I want to leave New York. I'm going to go to Philadelphia. Oh, look a cheese shop. Let's go in. I like cheese. Hi. I'd like to work here. I mean, I also had worked at a beer and cheese shop. But, um, anyways, I, I, I say that just because I think because I've moved around a, a little bit of a healthy bit. I, as an adult, I kind of feel like winging it works for me. Yeah. Um, yeah, I'm, I'm not much of a planner. I feel that hence me coming into this little interview where I was like, uh, this morning, I'm gonna go ahead and write up some questions, send it over. So she's got some time to think about this if that'll be helpful to her. Maybe people like that. I don't know. Uh, so not like we're, we're doing this and I'm gonna share like the way you share with me, my wife and I for so long. Uh I would say about six years of our marriage. We thought for sure. We were gonna be leaving all of this here and going to India, we thought we were gonna be living, moving and living there because there were some amazing businesses that are working to uh towards the end of human trafficking in the area. So we're like, we want to be part of that. Like that's a big problem. Sure. And we actually knew people and it wasn't here. So we were like, let's go there. Like we like we like the idea of like traveling and doing something new. Actually, this shirt it says uh real men, empower women is from that company who we were partnering with for so long but long, long, six years worth of life planning, figuring it out, setting it all up, paying off all of our debts so we could just pick up and go life dealt new cards and in a similar way COVID shook things up and that was when we fully accepted and really got into the place of mourning that the thing we thought we were planning and setting up and going to go do we're not gonna go do. So we started figuring out how do we set up roots here? Uh Figure out what our family is going to do and we're still exploring like, what's that next big thing? That's gonna be our big goal motivation. So for me getting to hear that you're moving to Thailand is like, so cool. Like, so so, so cool. And uh I know the feeling or I, I have from my side, that perspective of the feeling of what it's like to think. I'm going to drop everything. I know here and I'm gonna figure it out there because originally for us, we had that same plan of, we were going to show up and not know exactly what we were gonna do, but dang it, we're going to do it. So I think there's just something unique in people um, who jump into big things like this. And I'm like, what is the thing in us that pushes us towards for a lack of che other, not cheesy things like towards that kind of adventure? Yeah. Yeah. That like the go button that we have that screams, I'm ready. Fire aim. Yeah. That's right. That's right. That's, yeah, I don't know what it is. I don't know where it comes from, but I'm glad I got it. I guess it's taking you such interesting places because of the transition from theater into musical. That's an obvious one. Uh and the drive of necessity to get into things like real estate or beer and cheese and all of those other jobs that you have very lucrative, very lucrative. I'm sure it's just like, please these $2 an hour and give me tips as well. Uh Actually my beer, my beer and cheese. Uh there's this place called The Story of Beer and Cheese in the story of Queens. And that was one of the best jobs I've ever had. It was, it was $9 an hour because it was a retail job, technically because it was a, it was a shop, but it was also a bar. That's how you get them. So it was $9 dollars an hour plus tips. And I was like, and it closed at, at midnight. So I didn't have to be up until five AM. It was great. I loved that job. That's, this is a good spot. You know, service industry gets a bad rap sometimes. But I feel like everybody needs a service industry of some sort. Everyone should work, everyone should work in the service industry. Thank you. If you're wanting to get into voiceovers or wing in for anything, you better try out for service and retail first or alongside. I think it makes people better humans. Um, empathy, you understand? Absolutely. And it makes you better human. It makes you better at multitasking. It makes you better at communicating. It makes you better at so many things. Hopefully eating good food. I mean, there's a lot of bad restaurants out there too. But, um, yeah, I think I can, I can tell when a person has not, they usually tip badly. They usually bad, not, not all of them. I will say I know some people who haven't but I, I will say a lot of them. Yeah, they tip badly or are, are not 11 skill. I'm very grateful for which is very like random. Um is that I can carry a bunch of **** at once and my booth is in my basement. So every morning I have to like, ok, what am I gonna take down for the first half of my day? I've got my water, I've got my coffee, I've got my cell phone, I've got, am I gonna bring a snack? Is it gonna be a bowl of oatmeal? Is it going to be toast? Is it gonna be both everything? And how can I carry all of it in one trip? The classic grocery move of, I'm making one trip and every bag is coming with me and you've got like the giant red marks on your arm. Oh, yes. Nothing but lactic acid burning. You did it one trip goals, one trip. I still get compliments uh when I carry more than one plate and I do like put it in the hand and the little platform thing, plates sitting on top of it. I can carry three plates easily four if I'm feeling real squirrely and there's not a lot of liquid. My favorite is the, is the this three cup thing that not everyone can do for some reason even though it's like cup holding one oh one. Oh I have. So my, I, I do the big palm like three in one hand and I had somebody like frowny face me and he was like, that's real dangerous because you're going to tumble one out like that guy's got no support. I was just like, you've never seen me carry cups because not a drop is hitting the floor. Side. Note, the one time I ever used a tray to carry the glasses, I absolutely spilled all over my skill, skill, skill. It's, oh, it's a whole thing. I can control this. I can't control something on top of this. Right. Right. Exactly. Ok. I need to look at the next question, looking, total casual conversation. We're doing this. Wow. Look at us just so smooth. This guy knows what he's doing. He's like a total professional like that guy on hot ones. Uh What is something? He's totally winging it and he does it so good. I freaking love that show. He is uh chicken winging it. That was so cheesy and I loved it. So in the interest of winging it, whether that's moving to Thailand starting your own freaking business and voiceover or even I'm sure on stage a time or two you had to find the line out of your brain and like, I'm gonna make this character happen. Uh How do you experience and celebrate the wins when it comes to voiceover or not voiceover but winging it. I know what I'm talking about. Who? Well, I, I, we had this question when I was in vocation, the vocation conference a couple weeks ago. Um we were asked, how do we celebrate our wins? I mean, my answer was resting. Hm. I think that's the answer. But the word resting, I think can mean many different things. Um, it can mean going out to dinner, it can mean sleeping. It can mean it can mean, and I think this is ultimately the biggest reward that I've given myself is not waking up and immediately falling into like, ok, what do I have to do today? If I have a good like week or a, a win? Um Then either like the, the next day or next Monday or next opportunity that I have to like, start with. Um Maybe there's not a ton of stuff on my calendar. I can be like, I'm gonna have like if I sit on the couch in, during the day, on a weekday, like, wow, we're resting. Um And so I would say I would say that um and also planning, planning an, an adventure of some kind. If it's a camping trip or a uh international trip, my partner and I go on a lot of international trips. We really prioritize travel especially now that we can again. Um But it's, it's kind of the most, one of the most important things to us. So, planning and resting are my, are my rewards. That's good. I love that because I love that rest really does show up in different ways like the simplicity of just sitting on the couch in the middle of a week. Self five on that, like those moments where those can hit and it feels so boujee to sit on a couch and like, on Monday at noon, doesn't it? Do you ever drive around and you're just like, or like in the middle of the week during normal work hours and you're driving somewhere and you look around and it's like, why are there so many people out here go to work? You all, I'm in the middle. I got some and you're like, well, but I'm out here that it feels a little like that sometimes. Yep. Yep. Uh, rest is huge because like, for me coming into this, at what point I'll ask you this first before I go into my own little diatribe. At what point did you feel like this is my full time job? It does not look like what I always thought full time work if this is even part of your story in the same way I know for me, I came into this and I came from corporate, like, I was a corporate trainer then I worked as a, a preschool director in a very large church and I came into this and was like, I don't have set hours. I'm not the classic 9 to 5. I'm not Monday through Friday. I kind of am on and off whenever I want to be on and off or I allow myself to be on and off. So at what point did rest feel restful and not like a betrayal of I should be doing something right now. Oh, I think that's always a work in progress. Um It's become, it's become more of a priority for me starting, I would say in the second half of last year. Um I, yeah, I would say that rest became, became a priority the second half of last year, 2022. Um But I will say that, you know, the first part of your question was when did, when did full time? Uh Yeah, the realization of the fact that like I am in control of my own hours and I am my own boss. And I have, I, I ha I have to and I get to set my own parameters around what we're doing here. Um I definitely had, um, I think a split feeling of, of excitement and, um, possibility when I was, uh let go, I guess, fired for my real estate job. Um, I basically asked if I could go back to part time and they said no. And, um, so I said, ok, goodbye unconsciously uncoupled. Right. Yeah. Um, when I walked away and I, I was like, ok, well, guess I'll make this work. Um, and so I put 400% of myself into it. I was getting up at early as I could and sometimes I would stay in the my old booth until, you know, for 12 hours at a time, I didn't have a chair. Um I could barely like even fit in that space. Um It probably was not as fancy as what you're working with behind you. You are a regular, I don't know, I just feel good energy is in the space you're in right now. Thank you. Well, it's funny that you say that because this used to be called the murder room. It was a really scary, creepy, tiny, tiny little room in the basement. Um But, you know, with Marshalls and a dream, you can achieve anything. Um But I, yeah, I, I realized that, OK, I'm in charge, uh this is gonna, I'm gonna get out what I put in. And so, um I was also looking to um folks who have found success for, for answers and parameters and parameters and um I kept hearing the, the, the um numbers of, you know, anywhere between 30 to 50 auditions a day and I was like, OK, let's go for it and that's when everything changed. It's when I started doing 200 aiming for 200 auditions a week and keeping track of my auditions and, and by keeping track of them, I do not mean holding on to them. I mean, just my little book, I'm sure I've showed it to you before. I don't know where it is. It's a, it's a little pink book. Oh, it's literally right here. Um It's my little tally book. Where all I did was write the time I got into the booth, the date and where I auditioned and how many just tallies, tallies, tallies, tallies, tallies. That's all the book is, is, um, and that's when everything changed. And I was like, oh, this is measurable. Um And you know, I, I'm not a math person but this is pretty simple math and I can say, oh, ok. I did X amount of auditions. My booking ratio is X. So if I do X amount of auditions that equals ideally in a perfect world X amount of jobs, which means that if I do X amount of auditions a day, I'm getting paid X amount if my average job is so on and so forth. So once I um shifted my mindset to that, then it kind of became a a game of like how fast can I get? How good can I get? How can I self direct myself? How can I get these auditions out in a way that feels good and natural but also fast. And um uh what's the word streamlined? Um Yeah, so I think um that that was the first, that was December 2021. Um that I really started trying to hit those numbers of 200 a week. Yeah, where you're just like, you know what, I'm already kicking all the ***. I need to take all the names too. Wasn't kicking much *** back then. Um I just was looking for butts to kick quantifiable are so huge. There's a kind of coming back to our boy CS Lewis with his lines and witches and wardrobes and whatnot. He, uh, there's a quote of his that I still to this day I like cling to my brain as the a guiding light for me in some ways where it's like, it's so funny how day to day nothing is different, but when you look back it's all changed. Like day to day, everything feels exactly the same. Like I'm going in, I'm hitting the nail on the head, but tiny changes, tiny quantifiable measurements of you look back and suddenly you're like, everything's different than day one to now. You know, for me in voiceover, uh, or anything really like this guitar over here, picking that up. I'm better now than I was back then. But day to day it's felt clunky and never really felt different. But now I look back and I'm like, oh, I can actually play a couple chords. Yes. Yes. Oh, no. My whole life is different. My whole life is different and sometimes that's to the pleasant and sometimes that's too, the unpleasant. Yeah. And I've experienced, you know, different places in my life where I'm like, my whole life is different for the worst and I'm very grateful right now that it's for the better. So that does lead me into my next question that I don't remember the words of but I'm gonna look at Jesse. I can't wait. What has, oh I'm not gonna read it straight up because I want the video to look good. Hang on, let me memorize this and I hope you realize I'm probably not gonna edit this and this is all gonna be part of it. I love it. Show them how the pudding is made. I love it. Uh So what has helped you when winging? It felt like it's too much or you're absolutely like f this thing or how did you persevere or how did you decide? You know what this wing ain't healing? I need to move on to the next thing. Mm Yeah. Um I would say probably my, my choice to leave theater would be the because it was a, it was a choice to, to remove myself for sure. Um Before uh in 2019, I finally joined the actor's equity, the *****. Um I was on track. I was, you know, getting principal roles. I was um I felt like I was kind of finding my footing. Um And also like as I was um in my twenties and in college, like everybody was always like, oh, you're gonna be so good when you're 40. Oh, you're gonna be so good when you're 50 it's just around the corner, just keep going. Let's dingle this carrot more. Yeah. So I was like, OK, well, I'm 30 now and it's starting to happen. So maybe they're right now, here I am and it's going and it's doing and, and, and then, you know, the pandemic hit and I was feeling these feelings before the pandemic hit. But I was, I uh the pandemic just let me sit and reflect with my thoughts, um, of the fact that in the theater industry, we are treated so poorly, um, and, uh paid so little and in addition to that, so many, especially regional, well, not especially, but my experience is, is with regional theater. I've not been on Broadway, but um it's just as prevalent there. But the, the problematic issues of every is um every transphobia, homophobia and everybody's always like what it's theater, it's like, ha ha funny. Um Look who runs it. Um So all of that really sat with me in um uh a really deep way during the pandemic because I wasn't in it every day and I wasn't seeing all the good parts of theater every day. I wasn't having community, I wasn't creating, I wasn't, you know, having all of those um the positives every day. So I was able to really sit with a lot of the harm that was being done and talk to friends about, you know, past experiences and how they're so thankful that they're not in those rooms anymore. And people just being more open in general about their experiences. Um I think people became very vulnerable and open during the pandemic. And um because of what we've all gone through collectively. Um So, yeah, um I was winging it with my reaction to those feelings in that I started um doing work to understand uh how to potentially call in or out a certain theater in Philadelphia slash the oldest theater in America. Um And one that I had worked at several times in different capacities, that is just a really, really, really problematic space with problematic leadership, but the potential to be in a incredible space. And so, um a group of friends and I were kind of working on from 2020 to 2021 kind of almost weekly sometimes um chatting about what we can do and how to make the space safer and how to have these discussions with these creepily powerful men. Um And that we just finally reached a point where it's like we after talking to so many people who have already tried in the past, um kind of learned that that's not really a possibility and that there is that, that having the conversation isn't going to bring forth any change. And um especially having talked to people who had experienced some real harm that like it's it uh different iterations of communication that we had fleshed out weren't enough. And um so then when it came time for them to announce their return season after COVID, um I had, you know, commented, asking some questions on Instagram um saying, hey, what have you been doing the last 15 months to make your space safer for all of the people that feel harm in that space. And I received a letter, a cease and desist letter um from the theater. And then I got into a legal battle with the theater and then I had a protest and we created a little organization and we tried to fix things and um it became my job, it became 100% my job of um but it wasn't my job, you know what I mean? Um But it became my, my full time experience of my life, like everything else fell and I like this was summer of 2021 coming up on like the question that my um but real estate boss is like, are you coming back? And um so, yeah, anyway, so I was, I've never experienced anything like calling out an institution, much less one of the oldest theatrical institutions in the United States. And it was really terrible. But, you know, we did a lot of um we did a lot of things but ultimately, it became um really, really, really awful uh of an experience as far as um the people that we were trying to have a conversation with, that refused to have a conversation with that sent me the cease and desist. Um Unfortunately, it just became really just the entire experience became harmful and, and you know, emails and messages from folks who are supporting those men um became too much for me to handle by myself slash with the community I was working with. And um I had to remove myself from theater as a kind of, unfortunately, as a whole in order to just like get my mental health back to where it needed to be. And that's, that was when I made the conscious choice to not go back to real estate and to try voiceover because there is so much of what I did love about performing that I get to do on my own without a creepy old man watching what I'm wearing or trying to get into my dressing room or things like that. Um So I would say that that was one of those times where I was like, really trying to do something and coming up against the thing and like, we, we really did try and we did some good and then it was like, OK, we all have to like take care of ourselves. Go on. Yeah. Yeah. So important. And I first thank you for sharing all that. I know that is still not uh enjoyable or pleasant recounting of an experience that you had. So I know that's heavy and I know that so personally too, like not specifically your circumstance, obviously, but it's so easy to relate to. Like I had mentioned, I had worked at a church prior to this and for me getting out of that was for me, I was wrapped up in that identity, that this is who I am, what I believe, what I stand on and it's for people, all this stuff. And I genuinely believed that wanted to believe I should say that the people who were in power, who had that voice, that platform were aiming for the best for people, but they were going about it in all the wrong ways. So for me, I, I became that voice of, you know what I know, I don't agree with everything here, but I'm gonna get this job and I'm gonna do it to the best of my ability in order to be able to be a, a bringer of change to the narrative that I am seeing here and getting into conversations with people of like, OK, how were you hurting this? And then peers of this is what I believe about this topic, specifically, the topic of homosexuality and transgenderism. And when it came down to it, I was the voice of the opposite and for the obvious reasons like for the narrative of church things. Um But on one specific weekend, I was like, I can't support that. You just brought an absolutely transphobic speaker onto stage and gave him a platform for your giant audience because it is a pretty big place. So for me, that was pandemic, I think all of us get so focused or were so focused on what we were doing and hitting that grind and doing the thing that the pandemic was by no means. Absolutely not even suggesting in the direction that it was a good thing. But it interrupted, it interrupted that moment and I, the same thing happens to me to this day. My wife pops in on me when I'm in the middle of a big workflow and interrupts my brain. I don't easily jump back in. I have to process what's suddenly happening around me. And when I get that moment to process around me, I can figure out like, OK, is the thing I'm working on actually beneficial to me or was I just so hyper focused on it that I couldn't see anything that so like, yeah, the pandemic interrupted that and said, you know what you put in the work. Uh but this isn't it like you need to chase after the things that are important to you and the people who you love and the people who you want to support. So yeah, when that happens, yeah. And, and it's tough when, when you can see like I'm sure you saw the potential for good that that place could have done. That's when it hurts is when you can see like, oh so many people could be taken care of. There's the resources are here like that's the, that's the other thing is like this institution is wealthy as can be and could be so much more wealthy if they didn't pay two men so much money. Um but that's when it's really hard is like when you can see the potential for, for safety that isn't. Um Yeah, it's heartbreaking for sure. Yeah. The I won't say shameful, but I will say the part that continues reawakening and trying to, you have to figure out how to digest again is the, how do I not throw the baby out with the bathwater? How do I love the thing I've always loved and not hold that thing accountable to what these unenjoyable people have done. Yeah. You don't want them to like, I, I think about that all the time. Like I'm like, oh I did, I stopped doing theater. They won like, no, they did not. No, they did not win. Um And I, I get to perform every day, all day long now. Yeah. Yeah. And, and those people didn't win for you. You can create community the way that you interact with human beings every day is, is more beneficial. I think watching you interact with people than any church I've been to. That's for sure. Yeah. And that's the, that's the side of it that I think is important for anybody who were winging it and found a thing that they loved and went into it and then realized like this is no longer the thing. There's an amazing song by Garfunkel and Oates. Are you familiar with Garfunkel? And Notes, the comedy music band? Oh my God. I highly recommend this song. But it's called Loser and it's my favorite of theirs. Uh, and the line, the chorus, um, I don't think I'm big enough to get any sort of copyright issues. So that, that thing and if they sue me, I would love that. Uh, what is it? Um, you can use my lawyer. It's, you didn't read it, didn't do it, didn't reach your goal. Your heart is broken. You're an ******* in the end. You have what it takes. So here's to you and your big mistakes, you did something, something and defeated. You were something in the race and that, but it's like all about how, who cares? You did the thing and you lost, but it's better to be a loser than a spectator. And like, I've loved that song so much for so many years now. It's catchy too. Um, I forget entirely like, I love starting sentences and then I'm like, wow, how did I get here every day, all day long? Yeah, absolutely. Uh, but to anybody who's been like, winging it knowing when you've hit that point is not easy, but there's so much that can be on the other side of it when you finally are able to give yourself that space to mourn the loss of that thing because it very much is a, a death of sorts, like the thing that I was chasing after so hard died and I need to mourn that like any loss and move forward. So much more joy is on the other side of it. For me being in a space where people thought they knew the right way to do all the things moving into this space where it's like, hey, guys, life's hard. Let's let's do it all together because it's too hard to do it alone. And I want to be there with you like this is so much nicer now and I would have never known the amount of just freedom to be myself and joy that came along with that if I didn't make the switch, if, if I hadn't gotten that interruption that said, like, you're moving hard interruption change course, like, and that's, I celebrate that every single day and the more I accept it, the more I feel in the right place. Absolutely. And I think also too, we can take little bits of everything that we've done in the past, be it, you know, maybe more traumatic situations like what we're talking about or even like, you know, for those of us that ****** around with sourdough during the pandemic. Like there are so many things that we can take from those experiences with us that we learned that can help us do better in like new situations or in our next situation or in this situation or in this job or in this community or in this friendship. Like, um so many things that we can take that are positives and you kind of have to because otherwise like what was it for? Um Yeah. So how's your sour dough now? Um I got very, very good at it. I also and I wasn't on social media when I was doing it. So everyone was like, everyone's doing it and I was like, they are, this is a thing. Do you know, do you have the mother yeast for me to be able to do the thing? Right. Like I didn't know this was a thing that people were doing on, on Instagram. I don't, I got like, I was totally off it for like nine months in 2020. Um Yeah. No, I, I, I haven't been making it unfortunately. Um, and this is another reason why we're moving. It's like, like our life is not, the balance is not there here. Um, and I think a lot of it for me has to do with like, because of all that happened in Philly and so many other things have happened in Philly. Good and bad, but just right now I'm not, I'm having a hard time seeing through the, the hurt. Um, so my life feels very like, um, here, whereas it's, I'm hoping that in 64 days. Well, definitely not then. But, you know, once we get settled that I can find some more time to do things like, and maybe it won't be sour dough, maybe it'll be ceramics or something. Um, it's on my list. Um, I, I've always painted ceramics, but I've always wanted to um, throw. So anyways, um, I, well, here I am now in the middle of my sentence. Um I, what I'm trying to say is, um I'm looking to slow down so that things like sour dough or whatever it is can come back into my life because I definitely think as humans, we're supposed to be doing things like that making sourdough is very spiritual for me. like ritualistic. Um I felt like I was getting back to the basics of what it meant to be a human. Yeah. Folding. Do you heard it? You heard it here? First, you stop making sourdough and suddenly you move out of the country. That's how it goes and then you get to start something new. Yes. Uh So first, thank you so much for sharing this time. That's what I'm supposed to do as an interviewer, right? Thank you so much for sharing a genuine pleasure. You are just one of my favorite people that I have met through this entire process and you have been such a voice of support. Like it, it's the importance of feeling seen, right? Like I have never not felt seen even when I first stepped into this group and I wanted to just awkwardly sit with my camera off and watch as you guys all talked and I was nervous as anything. And at one point, I finally was like, I have to say something. I don't even remember what it was. But I remember you all were saying something and I was like, um actually I need to say something here. Like it was something I just needed to uh contribute to the conversation with us. Yeah. And I was like, I, I need in this and the second I did, I felt immediately welcomed and you know, some people, the second you start talking to me, you're like, I feel like I'm getting a hug right now. Am I getting a hug? This feels great. You're gonna make me cry. Well, you're warm and cozy of a human. So thank you. That means a lot. This community that we've all created together. It's not by mine, by any means. Um I mean, at all, actually, it's Newton's um but we, what we have, oh Dream. He's amazing. Um But it's, it's something that I am grateful for every day. I still haven't had the emotional capacity to respond to the flag that I received because um my God, I'm sitting here with mine and I'm like, where am I gonna hang it though? I know I, I meant to have it hung by this interview, but I, I feel like it needs its own event. It's just such a special thing. And I'm so grateful for you joining the group. I feel like that was a pivot for us and you've brought so many incredible people in and it's just like such a, it's the most beautiful community I've ever been a part of. And I'm so grateful now you're gonna get me. Hang on. How did we become so close? On the Internet? It's weird. I don't know. My internet friends are some of my best friends right now. I know. Like, I can't help it. It's just like we're having a good time. We really are and we're learning so much from each other too. Oh, my God. Yeah. Like the, the space has just, yeah, be jealous, everyone because this space is amazing and by be jealous, I mean, reach out, send us a message, send us and you're welcome. All are welcome here. Uh So this is the shameless promotional plug for yourself for the thousands of millions of people who are obviously listening to my podcast totally hashtag sponsored. Uh What, how can people find you if they choose to follow you or what things? I don't know. I, again, I watch a lot of hot ones. So I'm like, this is your time, this camera, this camera or this camera, let the people know what you got going on. Wait, I wish my remote was working because that would have been um um I would say you can follow me on Instagram. That's kind of where I'm at my most self. Uh That's at JP Beck V O um Also tiktok, same handle and my website is Jena pinchbeck dot com for now. I might change it to JP Beck V L. I don't know. I'm going through a branding moment. I'm trying to figure it out, but I really like JP Beck. It's so I, when I first met you, I thought your name was JP. And then everybody kept saying Jenna and I was like, who the **** is that? I was Jenna. I know JP. Yeah, it's kind of where I'm leaning. I actually JP Beck came out of that legal battle. Like a publicist friend of mine was like, you should probably change all your socials to something else. Wow. Oh, man, that's a, that's a part two. We'll have to get some day. Yeah. But I think I'm leaning in, I'm leaning into it. I think, you know, another good thing that came out of a, a thing. Well, I hope everybody who listens. If they are not already following you around on things they need to. And if it is a company looking for that next voice, don't choose mine or do choose mine and choose hers together, I'll do one together. You want more spit bo. And like what this was we can deliver. You want weird moments. We got weird moments too. We can just do a nice little volley on whatever your product is. Oh my gosh. Uh Well, hey, I've taken up a good hour of your time and this has been absolutely lovely for me. I thought I was gonna be, I was nervous coming into it, but man, that warm hug is just continuous with you and I love it. Like, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited.