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Hello and welcome. I'm Britney Fuquay and this is conversations in recovery here. We talked to folks from all walks of life who are on the journey of recovery from trauma or addiction. Additionally, we will hear from mental health professionals, activists, academics and artists who are working to help victims heal and find their voices A quick note that this podcast tackles sensitive issues in some content or language may not be suitable for all listeners. Thank you for listening. If you enjoy this podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and leave a review so others can find us. Hello all and welcome back today we are going to be tackling generational trauma before we start, I want to acknowledge that on the best of days, this is a heavy topic but this current moment in history is far from the best of days and for some people this topic might be difficult so I want to give everyone a trigger warning so that you may honor your emotions in whatever way you see fit. However, I would also challenge you to listen. Even if it is uncomfortable or difficult. If there's any hope of growth and change in this country, we must create space to listen and allow ourselves to feel the weight of the past and the present generational trauma also referred to as trans generational or inter generational trauma is what happens when the effects of a past traumatic event influenced the next generations. Tons of research has been done on how this plays out in black and indigenous communities of America. Today, Marie Mott is going to talk about Chattanooga's history and how the generational trauma of the black community is seen and felt. Today she is a Chattanooga native community leader and activist. She recently ran for city council and is one of the prominent faces of our city's black lives Matter movement. Marie, thank you so much for being here. I know I've said this before, but I'm really honored and humbled to be able to spend some time hearing from you. I have so many questions, but I think the first and most important thing to do is listen, so Marie, you have the floor, thank you, thank you so much. It's an honor and a pleasure to be here with you virtually, maybe one day soon we'll be able to do this thing. But for all of those listening, my name is Marie mont, that is my government name. Uh and I am a Chattanooga native, I am a black millennial, I am a nerd. Uh I'm just your local community activist and organizer that cares about the people in my city. And so um, how I ended up being on the forefront of movement still is a surprise to me because that definitely was not what I was looking for, but I definitely picked up a mental that I know was handed to me uh by folks like my grandfather, thomas, Leomont sr who was a community activist and organizer in east Chattanooga who had programs that taught young black men how to build houses and was fighting in the orchard knob community here locally for equitable housing for african american residents as well as just um the legacy that I have learned over my lifetime at the hands of my grandparents and my parents, which were african americans like Frederick douglass uh like uh Stokely carmichael martin, Luther king, Jr, ida B Wells, Harriet tubman, sojourner truth, all of these names that I learned as a child and these stories of individuals that I learned about who despite um any time period that they were in had decided to take up the mantle of justice um as well as true liberation equity. And so um you know, growing up in Chattanooga, Uh someone who came up at the tail end of the 80s, early 90s Chattanooga was really on the brink of the beginning of what we like to call revitalization, but to those of us in the community, we know that it's gentrification. And so we, that's when you see the revitalization of our downtown area. Um and then that slowly has sprawled out to our south side East Chattanooga are north shore over the last 20 years, 25 years of my lifetime. But growing up in Chattanooga Chattanooga was always like um the city that's too big for its britches if you will very um we have a lot of big dreams and there's nothing wrong with that. I think that. Um, I think that Chattanooga uh sometimes it's a little slow to change. I think we have big dreams, but sometimes we're not committed to uh doing the things necessary to be able to get to that future that we envision. And sometimes that Chattanooga has not been a city, unfortunately, that has created vision in which all all people could take a part in. And so growing up in january, it was kind of slow, you know. Um I knew the people in my community from the, from the elders to uh the kids in the community. I went to church in the same, in the same community I grew up in, I went to the direct center, I could walk there, I could see it from my house, we had a bakery, we had a grocery store, there was everything that we needed in the community. And so like over my lifetime I've, I've seen a lot of the resources and things that we had available in our community slowly just dwindle away over my lifetime and just seeing how um while Chattanooga has improved and improved to a point where a lot of people from the outside looking in, see Chattanooga's is great place to live. I also recognize that there is a great portion of Chattanooga that has been left in the past that has not been able to walk into the future of Chattanooga. Um there's this real divide and we talked about it a lot here in the city, we call it to Chattanooga's and so it's almost like two inheritances if you will, like either you ended up getting an inheritance that will push you forward in this city or you kind of got an inheritance where uh you're gonna have to fight to the nail to move forward. And so um my activism has definitely been about bridging gaps and hopefully creating and bringing about situations of change to where uh this city could actually rise to the occasion of being a city that we talk about and that should be a, a city that is progressive and for everybody uh is I love hearing you talk about your um community and like everything that you grew up with having all of that nearby the bakery and um just like the picture of community that that gives me that I feel like is so lacking, not even in just in Chattanooga, that I think the way that culture has shifted, it shifted away from this sense of closeness, in the sense of connection. Um so it wasn't, it wasn't fancy, you know, it wasn't fancy, but you know, everybody was comfortable if, if you will, you know what I mean? Well, it kind of that sense of like relying on each other versus, you know, everything else um in our effort to be more connected. I think we've through like social media and everything else. We've lost this tangible sense of of what real community means. Um one of the questions I have for you, you know, I told you that I'm not a native chad negan. So I've really had a very limited window Of Chattanooga's development and the shift and I mean I've been here for 10 years and I've seen so much change like we are renting because we are most definitely not able to afford a house in this current market um, which I've heard is the story for so many people. Um, but I'm curious, you know, a lot of people see the development on the south side, specifically down Main Street down broad and they just see, you know, new businesses and new restaurants. But what I'm curious about is like, what is that, how has that impacted the communities that have been in those areas for decades? Like I, I worked before Covid and I started working from home, I worked out of a home office and a friend of mine who owns a small business in Highland Park and one of the things I loved was the ability to just, I would take my dog and go for walks and I've seen even the shift in that neighborhood So dramatically within like five years, the types of houses, the price of houses. Um, and you see it just pushing and pushing and pushing. Um, so I'm really curious like what people see as I guess what you said, improvement, the things that make us cities where people want to live, what has that quote, unquote change or improvement done for those historic neighborhoods. Um, they have literally in so many instances completely displaced uh, native african americans from their communities. Uh, we did a piece with Professor ken Chilton from T. S. You, who was formerly of UTC. And one of the things that we just outlined in about 10 years was that we lost 2000 african american residents just on the south side. So that's not taking into account all of Chattanooga. That was only looking at zip code strictly from our south side area. And so when we think about, um, we think about improvements. So perfect example for, for the south side, that person looking at stores and shops and and amenities does not see 2000 black faces of people who have disappeared from that community as well as, um, even just how sometimes people even come into the community and began to develop them to where people have changed the names of our communities not knowing that for some of our communities, they're named after people that we love, they're named after events or things in history. And so, um, it's very, a very, um, much of a lack of understanding impact. Yeah, only seeing one side of it and not seeing the totality of what's happening. I've heard, um, you know, friends of mine talked about, what would it look like if we like actually just went in and built community and improve those communities rather than like he's a gentrification and like jack up people's property taxes. But I'm hearing that perspective from like white people who aren't from those communities. So I'm really curious, you know, if you have any thoughts and like what would that look like if the city was to come in and say, hey, we want the best of both worlds, We want to honor your history, we want to honor your community, but we also want to like breathe some life back into businesses in the area. Um do you see any possible way forward? I mean, I think it would take a lot of change at the city level um of desiring that, but best case scenario, you know, this new mayoral round, you know, really stocks up their game and you know, do you see any way forward with that? Absolutely. Um I don't think any african american person or just people who are from here that might not even be an african american that have lived in our communities with us don't want to see improvements of course. But I think that the, the improvements have to be strategic as well as in collaboration with the community. It's no way possible that you can take a community where you, you can pull up on census data, every 90% of the people in that community don't make any any more than $25,000 a year. That's not going to be the community that needs $200,000 houses. So how can we um, that might be at home, that might uh be perfect for tiny homes, that might be a community that might be perfect for accessory dwelling units. So a lot of our communities um that we look at, the majority of people are usually over like the average age of my, of my neighborhood is 36 years old, so it's not really any young people living here. The majority of them are at UTC. So my community, if you look at it, I have a family community. Parts of the south side, there is a lot of elders. So that's a great place for people who are single as a great place for people who might be widowed or folks that are maybe young people who don't mind living amongst Elders that are just getting started in life. So why not build housing that fits that, the income of that community and even the makeup of that community. East Chattanooga is a family community. And so why not structure housing is between $50 and $70,000. That's about houses are worth in this community. So, uh people who have Children will be able to live in each sexual affordable housing. So, I think it's also repurposing what we have. We have a lot of abandoned buildings, empty buildings and there are so many examples, Atlanta is doing this work of repurposing old buildings and turning them into like micro units for people who are single for people who are coming back home from prison for people who are homeless. And so it's just using our imagination. I think we're only limited by our imagination and our inability to collaborate with people who are not homogeneous to our belief systems. Um, but there's endless possibilities of how we could make affordable housing uh, work for various different communities. Yeah, I love that dream. I mentioned, you know, that I'm originally from a little north of the perimeter. Um and it's, it's so interesting when I moved here, I've had so many conversations because my husband's from right over the state line, so he claims Chattanooga is home. He's like, I just claim it, it's the closest city um that I, you know, it's, it's so different Atlanta. I mean now granted Atlanta is way bigger than Chattanooga, but like you said, there is that there are people who are actively looking for these collaborative ways to restore pockets around the city and how do we reach out to the homeless population and how do we care for the widows and the orphans and you know, I mean, you don't have to be a believer to like get on board with the philosophy of caring for orphans and widows and old people and homeless people right like. And what's interesting is Atlanta and I've spent a lot of time in Birmingham as well. Something that's always struck me is Atlanta has wage gaps like anywhere, but specifically the african american community, there is a huge pockets of affluence in Atlanta and in Birmingham that there really isn't in Chattanooga, there's people who are in that upper tier percent and a large number who have been able to put in, you know, unfortunately money influence. But um, it's just been really interesting to see the work that Atlanta has been doing and love, love to Stacey Abrams. Um, she's like, I, every time I, I decided, all right, we think about moving back to Georgia. I'm like, uh, no, it's just a very interesting dynamic here. Um, the way that not just race, but like the wage division has come about in Chattanooga. Um, like you said to Chattanooga's really like, and that's so beyond race. It's the, it's just like the haves and the have nots. There's the very rich and then there's the rest of us and there's very few people that kind of straddle that line. Yeah, There, there is unfortunately Chattanooga is a city that doesn't really have a middle, either fall in the top heavy or the bottom of warships. And so I think a lot of that has to do with, when you look at cities like Atlanta, Nashville, there's one thing that they have that we don't have and that is historically black colleges and universities. Um, and part of the hidden history of the african american community in Chattanooga is UTC actually absorbed two of our historically black colleges and universities here in Chattanooga, Chattanooga at one point had three, I didn't know. Um, actually, a friend of mine has a, um, an organization that she started because she does hbcu research called diaspora girl and she gave me um, a shirt for her launch for Zion College, which was the last one that got absorbed by UTC, but we even had a medical college here. Uh, so we were at one point producing black dentists, we were producing black physicians. Uh, so A lot of that has dwindled. Um, a lot of that actually dwindled when we uh, forced segregation um, in the city of Chattanooga around around the early 1900s. Yeah, I just keep hearing this theme of like history erased as you're talking about the communities, um, historic black colleges, all these aspects of Chattanooga's black history, you know, I, I mentioned you have an NPR net. Uh, so it was thanks to one of their programs that I learned that martin Luther king actually almost became a preacher here, how I did it, you know, I mean? And I kind of think it's funny, I'm sure the person that told him, no, we're not going to take you on as clergy because we think you're too young was like kicking themselves about 10, 15 years down the road, um, are lost, Montgomery's game, but that, and then, you know, I think we brought up to you before we started recording the Ed johnson project. Um, I think scenic routes did a really great feature um bringing them on, letting them talk about the history there and what they're doing um, for anybody who's listening is like, what is that google the Ed johnson project. It will take you directly to the website for what they're trying to do in Chattanooga, the memorial that they're trying to build. But it's not even just for ed Johnson. I've got my notes here, but also Alfred Blount, that there were two men 13 years apart that were lynched from the Walnut Street Bridge. And that local historians actually say that it was more than that. Yeah. So it's two that we have confirmed, but several that we have researched over history that were also lynched from the walnut street bridge. And even that bridge was built as a symbol of racial division. So it literally divided black Chattanooga from white Chattanooga, which was one of the main reasons why when I um ran for city council, that was the symbol for my campaign because it's the thing that I believe in is that the best of Chattanooga is not one or the other. It's all of us. I love you. I'm just struck by the fact that like this is a huge tourist attraction. You know, we get the warmer months and there are people, you can hear dozens of languages at any given moment across that bridge, People who have traveled to the United States and are seeing this bridge and are seeing Chattanooga. Um, and that So many of us, you know, I've lived here 10 years, never heard those stories. And I'm curious Why it took 100 and 15 years for anybody to really be considering putting up a monument to these men into this part of our history. I would say probably the same reason most people didn't know that. The reason you could legally go after the KKK was because of black women who got shot and survived. Uh, the KKK shooting them on ninth street that we call martin Luther king boulevard now, um, there's, there's a very rich organizing history from Chattanooga, not only from an african american perspective, from a communist perspective, we used to have the black panther party here. We had a thriving communist party here in Chattanooga. There is a lot of working class history that doesn't get told about Chattanooga, but Chattanooga has always been this a city of resistance and really and really progress, we have really set a national standard when it comes to um really pushing for justice and liberation from a Chattanooga perspective. I think uh if not only did martin Luther king Jr have an opportunity to come here. C t Vivian preached here for a very long period of time and he's a legend. Um we had people who may not know Mukasa ricks, who is from Chattanooga as a matter of fact, he's from east Chattanooga and his sister lives four streets down for me, she's still alive and he organized with Stokely Carmichael, he was one of the young people that organized with Stokely Carmichael, Diane nash, john lewis under, under martin Luther king Jr So we, we have a lot of people and we think about Cd Robinson who changed the landscape of state education for black people. He was an organizer from Chattanooga mr map formerly of the, there's so many people from here who have made legitimate changes. But the problem is is that the powers that be have long since felt that those stories are not important and partly because um, there is not, there has not been a very real effort to bring all voices to the table in Chattanooga. A lot of, a lot of kind of what we see happening right now is, has really happened in the last decade. Um, as far as putting stories out there, uh, like Chattanooga organized for action, doing the walking tour with a local historian and uh, one of my mentors, I would say eric Atkins, uh, just there's just so much history that there are a lot of people who know it, but unless you bring them to the table or invite them to have these conversations a lot really just gets lost and she shoved to the background. I feel, I feel dumbfounded right now, truly like that, just like you said, the richness of the history here, that is just not known. Um, I think it kind of, you telling me all that shines a whole, another light on what your campaign looked like and the Black Lives Matter movement here in Chattanooga. It's almost like a reclamation of that history. Uh, like we are the rows that busted through the concrete. Yeah. Um, it's been a long time coming and you know me and see Grammy are millennials and so being born and raised here, you know, millennials are already a bridge generation. That's, that's what I call so much crap. We're like old enough and young enough at the same time. Like imagine trying to explain and I know some people are gonna get a kick out of this if you're a millennial to anybody younger than maybe 25 what a floppy disk is or, or dial up internet told my kids that like when I told my kids that growing up, I'm 31 so I told my kids that you know, back in the day my, I remember when my mom got her cell phone and it was one of those Nokia bricks like you could defend yourself with that if you were a woman walking alone at night, you didn't need a taser, you just need a Nokia cell phone because I think it's like what somebody, uh, they were like what I was like, oh yeah, and every word you texted with like five cents. Exactly. Hey man. yeah, I loved, I think what I loved so much about watching your campaign, which I wasn't in your district. So I felt helpless, but I, uh, I was like, yeah, I can't do anything, but I loved watching your campaign unfold because it was so, I love the grassroots of it. And I loved how inclusive it was that there were people behind you from like every demographic of Chattanooga, just because of the raw nous of your message and the refusal to cave and the refusal to be bought because Chattanooga does have this, you know, duplicity. And unfortunately, the, there's one side of that that is majority and control. Um, I, you know, I know you didn't get that seat, but I also like, you haven't slowed down one iota. So like I'm really excited to see, you know, what, what comes of things outside of the structure of city council because there is that desire for change. Now you've let this fire in these people who were following you, um, and see grimy and all the other people that were behind the Black Lives Matter movement, that's still ongoing. I hate saying work because it's still very, if this week has shown us anything it is that we cannot rest now right? Like the minute you feel like you can breathe for lack of a better term at this moment, um, the world comes in smacks you in the face again. So yeah, I don't, I gotta tell you I had a little bit of a panic attack realizing we were going to have this conversation when we didn't know how the verdict was going to come out. I mean either way right? Like I don't want to diminish and be like oh well the verdict came back guilty like we're all good because that's not even remotely the truth. Um But I was like man I don't the weight of this moment. You know the whole nation, I feel like holding the holding of breaths, waiting. Um What does this How are you feeling? I guess after the last 48 hours. I mean I'm sure angry and relieved and sad and like all the things simultaneously. But yeah how how are you? Um I'm sorry I take it down. No no no no no no no no. Um I've been circling around the last book that dr martin Luther king Jr pen before his assassination and it was titled where do we go from here? Chaos or community? Mm And that is kind of like the question, you know that I'm asking people's we know or if you don't know there's still no excuse because you have google um you know or can learn the real history of this nation, how it came about what chattel slavery was, what did it mean to take this this land from the indigenous people who were here first. Um And what happened after slavery because slavery didn't end, it just transformed. And so um I wonder where do we go from here now that we have these concepts that we have brought into the public anti racism, um abolition. The fact that we are um seemingly not Mhm shy a little bit over a century from the civil war, we're having to have a conversation again about abolition. You know, that that's coming back into the mind of the public even in a modern context or era. It's kind of like where my mind is is that we know the problems we even though some solutions, but you know, where do we go from here? Are we really going to be committed to bringing about a situation of true equity and fairness in this nation. And also one of the things that dr martin Luther King Jr talked about that I posted on instagram today was uh if this country continues to oppress black people and other marginalized groups of people, it will inevitably destroy itself. And so there is a real opportunity. I feel like every generation, every time period has this opportunity this window um that we are given to choose a different path, right? And so that's really the the path that I hope we as community members and people choose is that I mean, aren't you tired I'm just seeing poor people. Aren't you tired of seeing people homeless, jobless. Aren't you tired of turning on the television just saying in another place in America, somebody black, somebody brown, even somebody poor white shot by the police, people strung out like America could be so much better than this and so could Chattanooga because Chattanooga is a microcosm of America, there's so much potential. Uh and so I I hope people see an opportunity of how, when we come together, that's the thing that I feel ah gave us even an ounce of justice yesterday, but the fact that so many people came together last year and for months because we didn't protest for a day, uh for months were in the streets calling for justice for various different people and so um that's really kind of where my mind is, is that I'm really, really hoping that people stay in this vein of connectivity, of accountability one to another and really just re imagining what's possible um in our modern era. Yeah, I love yeah, that's a beautiful response. You know, I was talking to a friend, I was like, I want to ask her how she's doing and I want to be cool with like if she just wants to get on there and scream, I'm just going to let it happen because I feel like you know every everybody processes and grieves differently and you know, there are people rejoicing today, there are people who are as ****** today as they were yesterday and people feeling both at once and everything in between and you know this, this ability to hold space for each other's emotions in the midst of things that are like so hard to wrap our heads around because there's so much happening at once. Um I think you're talking about people being in the streets for months. I was high risk, so I was like indoors hiding from germs. Um but I think one of the things that struck me was how willing people were to put on a mask and do everything they could to keep themselves healthy, but that what we were up against was so much bigger than a virus, like, you know, it was like this outpouring this outcry despite people could have just been like self preservation, you know, and it was it was amazing. I hope like you said that we don't turn our TVs off and say, well it's done, we can go home now because as we saw less than you know, two hours after that verdict, the the work is not done so far from it. Um I think one of the things I so deeply respect about you and your work is how willing you are to come to the table and have conversations with people that are like minded with people that are not like minded, like if anybody's willing to talk and be open minded, you're there for it. And I love that and I think that's how true leadership happens and true progress is made, you mentioned on instagram today and kind of at the beginning of your intro that you never sought leadership, right? You weren't like in it for it. Um uh one of the things you said was it took you a lot of time to find the courage to speak up. Um so one of the things I definitely wanted to make sure that I asked you in our time was, you know, what advice do you have for people who do truly care and want to affect change? But maybe our shire by nature or conflict diverse or truly don't know where their place is in the movement. Um you know, do you have any words of encouragement or wisdom for those people who are still trying to find their courage and find their voice, but have the heart and have the desire for that change. Absolutely. The first thing is, is uh Seth Godin talks a lot about finding your, why your purpose, your passion. Um it doesn't make any sense to get into something that you're going to be passive about. And I talked about that in my instagram stories today, you know, um if you're not passionate about it, you're just being passive about it. And so uh whatever really interests you. Like, if that if it's something that really sparks something in you, you know, to where you feel the ways about it, I guess you could say then that's the thing or the issue um that I would encourage you to just do a simple search, who in your community might be working on that issue, if nobody's working on that issue. Um, maybe what organizations tackle this issue or respond to this issue. So one of the things that Um, happened at the end of 2017, beginning of 2018 was I was seeing all of this police violence that was happening in Chattanooga. And so I had a conversation with my father and his recommendation because I was like, dad, I don't know where to start. And he was like, well in his mind, the the city council is partly responsible for the police, right? They help to point the police chief. And so he said, why don't you just go down to a city council meeting? And I never went down to the city council meeting and Marie went to the podium and started speaking, that's that's not how that happened. I was going for weeks where I didn't know anybody there, so I'm very introverted, I've learned how to be sociable, but I would just show up and I was, I would intentionally sit in the back because I didn't know anybody there and would just listen saying who's talking, what are they talking about? Um right, what issues are coming up, what community members are coming up and just filling the room. So it even took me some time even when I figured out, well, I'm started down the pathway, I didn't immediately start speaking up about anything, right? I had to kind of learned, well, what is this all, what is this all about. And so I naturally became encouraged eventually because I saw community members and then I started talking to people and uh speaking to people who were there because they would get up during the public commentary section and just talk to them about things that they were passionate about. And then I found out that some of them lived in the same community that I did, and so they really encouraged me, you know? Well, if you're here about an issue, some of them even offered to stand up there with me, you know? So the best thing that I would say is first of all, find something that an issue that you care about and then just start down the pathway of figuring out what people or what institutions are responsible for. Either changing or responsible for that issue Or or impact, have the possibility to impact that issue positively and just go sit in a meeting, you might not say anything the first time you're there, but that's just an introduction and a start. So Marie from 2017, is Fully different from 2021 Marie. It took a lot of time to build up capacity, right? Uh we we don't get we don't get there overnight. It's the slow evolution that that happens of, the more that you do something, the more you feel empowered and encouraged to keep doing it and naturally if you stay committed to it, you have the ability to see just the progress of, I'm not where I started. I've learned a lot. I've made a lot of mistakes. Lord have mercy. I've connected with people. It's a lot that happens. And so I would just say start on the journey. If you're sitting on the sidelines, nothing's going to happen. But the best thing you can do is exactly what I've done, fumble forward, fumble forward. I love that. That's gonna be, I'm gonna make a bumper sticker for regional to myself and all fellow slightly extroverted introverts fumble forward. It's so good. Um, one, you know, one last thing I want to ask you because I feel like, you know, the last, I don't know, months have been so traumatic and heavy um, that I want to end on like a hopeful note. We're good. I really want to ask you in the last year whether it's running for city council or all your other activists work. What has been like one moment that has been really encouraging for you or one interaction that kind of changed. I don't know, but I gave you hope for how things were moving. I would say. Um, at one point I was very, very frustrated with, I have been doing this work for a while. I've been through a lot, seen a lot and I felt like I had done some good I guess, but at the same time I felt like, I don't know, I wasn't really uh breaking through getting through. Um and I prayed for a mentor and literally uh my mentor came out of nowhere in a time where I had lost a friend who had been murdered, another one who had committed suicide on top of my activism. And so it was a lot that happened and literally a month after my friend Clay Mason was murdered and um we were going to run for city council together. She called me through facebook and had having conversations with people that I don't know are generally short because we don't have anything to talk about because I don't really know you. Yeah, Yeah, so this lady called me out of nowhere and literally talked to me for like two hours while she was on the road. And so that was like a turning point because before, before we hung up, I didn't even know this, this person and I asked them what books were on their reading list. Like I felt so comfortable. It was, it was insane like we talked about so many different things and all of it was like from things that I had talked about previously. So I was like, you know, it's kind of weird that you're watching me like that, but but the best way that that introduction started a relationship that has really, really helped me from somebody who's older than me, who's really worked with me on uh strategy on self care, uh there are so many things that I didn't even know where practices really until really discussing these things with her. And so I love having an accountability partner who is old urging me but young enough to understand where I'm coming from. But at the same time, you know, who has been like um been a help because I I have always had women who have been instrumental in my upbringing for my grandmother's to my mom. Um I've never not had black women covering me and so, you know, for a while, it's like my mom has been the only person since both my grandmothers have been deceased. So it's been a pleasure having another black woman who's older than me, who can be like an additional covering and encouragement for me. So I would say, you know, her arrival into my life was very timely and um I would definitely say there will be a lot of things I don't think I would would have been able to do if I didn't have her pulling me to the side and just schooling me on how I could just approach things differently, think about things differently and just be a better person. Yeah, that's wonderful. I'm you know, I think we all have to just like I think sometimes find the courage to be like, I need help. It's that was for me that is such a struggle, I despise asking people for help. So the moment that I broke out with that as a as a prayer, your girl was desperate, That's amazing. I I'm yeah and I'm glad you know that, that you were able to build that relationship and you know, be where you are today, I think our city is better for it and um I'm so thankful for you taking the time to talk to another stranger today and chat with me. Um I know I came across as like overzealous, I'm like please talk to me. Um but I'm so glad we got this opportunity to connect and I'm so thankful um you were able to share and you know, we could through this conversation bring some of that lost history, hopefully to people's you know, attention and continue the conversation that needs to happen, not just for our city um but for our country and for the world and that, you know, our generation gets a lot of crap but to say that like, you know, we're here and we're doing the work uh in our own individual ways and hopefully you know, together make little steps forward. Absolutely thank you for having me on Marie and I covered a lot of ground in that conversation for more information on generational trauma the Ed johnson project here in Chattanooga and more go to conversations in recovery dot org and click on the resources tab I'm going to provide website links, articles and more that can help you dive deeper and maybe find the thing that sparks your passion. If you want to support conversations in recovery and the work we do financially, you can now find us on Patreon. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of conversations in recovery. Many of these topics are difficult to discuss with. These conversations are so vital. If you or someone you love is struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts, please know that help is out there. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1 802 738255. And remember you are enough just as you are right where you are big thank you to this week's special guest Marie ma, you're so thankful that you are able to join us and as always shout out to joseph McDade who composes music and audio bites for other artists to use in their projects. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Uh huh. Uh huh.