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Hello and welcome. My name is Tiffany Farag and welcome to get to know you a podcast for those who want to open conversations and access deeper dialogue where conversations can become stronger when we explore our thinking and behavior. Every Tuesday, a new question will be asked to a guest speaker, genuine people here to have insightful conversations. My guest speaker today is a somatic mentor and embodiment guide focused on nervous system and body based practice. She has taken her training and personal practice over 10 plus years and created the core Rising method, a unique combination and flow of body based from the worlds of somatic healing, embodiment, yoga and breath. These modalities all come together intentionally to work with the body systems to satisfy the energy we you feel and safely express it, allowing it to process and move through you TCR method feeds Maggie's passion of connecting people to the wisdom of their bodies because she believes that this connection to self is a foundation to collective healing and a new path forward. Please welcome Maggie Hayes to get to know you. Welcome Maggie. Hi. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. And may I just say Tiffany? You have like the perfect podcast voice. I could like to thank you all day long as you were talking. I was like, this sounds so nice. I'm glad you enjoy it. I'm glad this is a good thing. Yes. Yeah. Right. We're, we're in the right space. We're in the right space. Exactly. Thank you. Uh Yeah, thank you. So I want to hear more about the core Rising method. It sounds beautiful like you're, you know what you do, like the words that you know, I love what you say about you believing that the connection to self is a foundation to collective healing. And I think that's something really beautiful. Like people think of healing and think of I need to heal myself. I need to heal myself, but collective healing. That's so beautiful. Yeah. Tell us more about that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And I really think that collective healing begins with the self, right? It really begins with the individual and it's kind of like the difference between um operating from like the mind, right? The mind is of course an important piece. We don't want to like demonize it completely, but operating from the mind in the sense of like, you know, programmed beliefs, doing the things that we've told that we've been told to do, trying to meet expectations, trying to satisfy kind of these cultural societal expectations. Um and really approaching our healing as a way to fix ourselves, right? I always kind of see that's like more of like the mind based approach, but allowing that process to really be dropped into the body when it becomes a means to connect to what's really true for yourself. Right? Because the body kind of has like its own like innate wisdom, it really has its own kind of intuitive wisdom that's separate from what we've learned all throughout our lives. So being able to really tap into that innate wisdom, I find really ultimately leads you on like the aligned path towards like, you know, what's like your true purpose in life? What are you really meant to be here for? How are you really meant to feel? How are you really meant to act? Right? I believe all of that information is really stored kind of like within the depths of the body and when we can do that on an individual level, that that's when I believe that collectively things can really change and transform because we're not all operating from the same kind of mind based program beliefs, but rather from a place of just like intuitive truth. I love all of that. It's beautiful. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. So do you find like when you are coaching clients, have you ever done, like, is it group coaching too? Do you find there's more of a benefit? Is there more of a benefit or, or something that happens outside of just individual like healing in that moment, like as a group can something happen? That's something that just goes another level, like another further into it. Yeah, I, I hear that, I hear that and I really love this question and I do, yeah, I do um both group, group, both group coaching as well as um one on one coaching as well. And honestly back to kind of like the individual path and process. I think it does depend on the individual, right? One on one coaching can be so transformative and so supportive. Um But the difference with group coaching is that you're also, I mean, you're all in the space together, right? You're all in a group and really feeding off of each other's energy. And what I find as well in group coaching is that if one person shares their experience, um another person, you know, can relate in a really deep and profound way. I I think a lot of the times also as well along this kind of healing journey, quote unquote, we feel like we're very alone. Um We feel like we're very isolated in our experiences. But the truth is that um we're not right, we're all, we're all so similar, we're all so connected and while maybe the exact experience doesn't totally look the same, the feelings often are the same. Um because we all want the same things, right? We all want to feel seen and heard and loved and understood and you know, trying to get to that place, we can all very much feel misunderstood, we can feel ignored, we can feel isolated, sad, we can feel, you know, we can grieve, we can have all of these emotions and um those emotions are not singular to an individual experience, right? Those are really a collective experience. So being able to share that in a group setting is really, really powerful. Um just so you can feel less alone, right? Because healing, that's such a powerful component to realizing that you are not alone. Because healing and when it comes to trauma specifically can be very isolating. And just from a survival lens, we can want to really isolate ourselves by opening up and being in group and being in community and even in a one on one setting, right? That's like a connection as well. But it starts to um yeah, just kind of like repair the fear or the belief that we have to do it alone because we don't, we never do. Absolutely. Absolutely. I thank you. Thank you for sharing that because I think a lot of people, I think a lot of people are kind of their depression or anxiety is quite heavy and they, a lot of people think their thoughts and their feelings are so unique to them and they don't realize that literally everybody is feeling or thinking like so many people are thinking and feeling the same thing and I think when people share these things and there's more group conversations, group coaching or, um, even one on one and you hear it for someone you don't know. People realize, oh, wait, like it helps them, like a weight is lifted. They're like, wait, I'm not, you know, it, it's better to not put yourself as much as everyone thinks I need to be unique. It's better not to put yourself in such a unique path. And people don't realize it's actually detrimental mentally to you and mentally to your self awareness. Hm. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, right, like kind of like circling back to what we were just saying, it's like um that pro like it allows you to feel seen and heard when someone else is sharing your experience, when someone else is kind of reflecting on the feelings that have been very present for you. So, you know, while I, while I totally believe that like, you know, our needs and everyone's kind of position along this healing path is different, right? The foundation is that the emotions and the experiences are very much similar. And um I always like, that's why I think that social media is so powerful. I, I always share this example um like on my own social, for example, everything that I share is pretty much an example that like, like something that I went through an experience that I had, it is a practice that I did that morning. It is a thought that I was having about something I'm going through and like, that's what lands with people because like, it's true. Right. It's not just a matter, a matter of, like, what do I think I should say today? It's just a matter of like, what's true for me today. And, um I find that, that distinction, um, can be very resonant with people because it allows them to, yeah, to feel seen in that unique quote unquote journey. Absolutely. And I love that you do that. I do follow you and listeners you should follow, not, not to plug my Instagram or anything, but just thinking about the process, right? No, no, I know. But you really are, you put out great content. Um Yeah, and I love that. I think you make the best um impact on others is like, you know, when you experience yourself and like when you're doing things for yourself and listening to your body and listening to your mind and it's like, I'm not gonna do, you know, it's also like, makes me think of do listening so much to yourself and not doing things because other people said it's like, oh, this is what I should do. This is what I should do. You know, that's the thing too. Like you're talking about your own experiences, what you're doing because it feels right for you. Like I love um you know, like when I, when I do things for myself and I've done things past or now or whatever, I'm doing things out of way. I'm doing this, this thing on my body or this thing in my, with my hands. Not because I read it anyway because it felt right. And then later, actually I find out the science evidence behind it because I read it in a book. I'm like, oh, I've been doing that so it's nice to see it afterwards instead of before. It's like, let's li I'm listening to my body first and seeing what it needs, what I need to do, how I need to move it and then finding out that, oh it's good for me later. Yeah. And that like what you just described like is, you know, letting the body lead versus the mind like in action, right? Like you're not like reading like XYZ benefits and thinking like, oh this sounds like it's something that I should be doing. You're tapping in and listening to your body like, oh what does my body want to do in this moment? Really letting that happen? And then after the fact realizing that it's exactly what you needed. And so kind of like articulating this difference between like living from the body versus the mind or the head. Like I feel like it can be like a little nuanced, it can sound like we kind of like talk in circles a little bit. Um because it's really a felt experience like you really have to put it into action, being able to listen to your body versus what you've been told and what you think you should be doing. Exactly. Exactly. And I've seen like, how I came across you is like, you know, I saw one of your videos about like trauma and like the nervous system and so on. And so the listeners, as you probably see the title, the question is how to heal with continued traumatic exposure. Now, when I first mentioned that question to you, Maggie, what were some things that came to your, came to your mind? I mean, first, it's just such a powerful important topic. Um because, you know, I think that it's easy for a lot of us who are, you know, survivors of trauma, but out of those environments, right? Like maybe it was like a childhood trauma and we're adults now, right? We're grown up, we're living on our own. We're out of that environment. I think that um yeah, maybe it can feel a little more accessible to use some of these body based practices and to really heal because we're not being exposed to the trauma every single day again. And so I think this is something that I really feel really strongly about really finding um a way to access support and healing while still in those traumatic environments because it's a reality for so many people. And it's something that um yeah, something that I definitely want to just like spread more awareness about. And so when you brought up that question, I was honestly, um I was really struck by it and I really wanted to dig in more and while like from like a research perspective, um there's still kind of like evolving research, evolving evidence coming out um on this topic specifically. So it seems like no one really has definitive answers on what is the right thing to do. Um, so I think just opening up the conversation is a really, really important place to start. Absolutely. And yeah, like, II, I guess, like police question myself like there are, it's hard because it's like what levels of trauma as well or where, like where you're coming from from it. I can say that for a period of time, I had continuous traumatic exposure for a period of time. I'm not in it anymore, but I haven't and I find we mentioned earlier going, like, looking at it from like your physical instead of for your mind when it's continued traumatic exposure, it's the opposite. It kind of needs to be the opposite. You need to look, you need to your escape because physically you can't, so you need something to happen mentally and physically, but it needs to, it's very much a mental thing that needs to happen for you to be able to continue, like living, continue moving. Um, uh, just, you know, continue trying to heal. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. And in those situations. Yeah, the mind is a very important piece um especially from a survival lens because having some presence of survival energy oftentimes is really needed, right? There needs to be some kind of like sympathetic presence of you being very focused and being very alert and being very hypervigilant about, you know, what's around you and maybe what's coming next and being prepared in that sense or, you know, maybe the safest thing for you to do is kind of dissociate and kind of retreat from those traumatic moments when they're actually happening. And so being able, I think to not really demonize survival energy, but rather really honor it when it needs to be really present. Um is really important to, yeah, just to, just to kind of like to continue to factor into the process and then, you know what, um what I always kind of recommend is working with the body through these processes, but in a way that's very tolerable and still safe. So for example, um you know, there's this concept called glimmers. Um glimmers being kind of like these short windows of time where you do feel safe where you do feel regulated and it's not necessary for that survival energy to be front and center, which can be as short a time as like five minutes behind a closed door, um or an hour walk outside if that's accessible, um getting some like sunlight on your skin, right? Like just like some brief window of time where there is regulation present, there is objectively no threat present and you can just breathe and let your body get accustomed to that moment so that you can start to notice what that feels like and start to really kind of train your body and teach your nervous system that safety is possible even when it feels like it is so, so far away and inaccessible. No, I love that. You mentioned that and um I, like, I'm just thinking back on my own experience and like, you know, I those glimmers are, you know, I guess they add it up and they, over time they add up in that moment and, and they do help like even a little walk is like, OK, I can go, like I can go for a walk. Um And when I, when I mentioned like, mind earlier, like, it's not, not escape, but more of like the talk that you're doing if you're in a, in a place where let's say you're in an environment where things are said to you constantly, constantly like verbal, emotional abuse, your, your own talk to yourself is like significantly a big player here. Mhm mm Yeah. And that makes me think of um So are, are you open to maybe like a personal question? Absolutely. OK. So that kind of that like inner voice. So let's say, you know, the inner critic is something that's really like, that's really prevalent for a lot of people. Would you say that that's something that maybe you experienced having some kind of inner critic? No, I was getting external critic so I had to push out the external critic and make my own voice louder. Hm, how do you do that? A lot of it is looking in the mirror. Firstly, I looked in the mirror and I couldn't, I couldn't identify myself. I'm like that was probably a big scare and um and movement did help but it was looking in the mirror doing things and looking in the mirror, even if I was crying, even if I was whatever it may have been like, you know, singing in front of the mirror, dancing in front of the mirror, looking at myself whenever whatever it is that I was doing. Hm Yeah, that's really powerful, right? Like taking in your own presence and seeing yourself for you versus what you've been told that you are. Yes. Yeah. And um yeah, I, I brought up that question because I was thinking of my own experience um when you know, the emotional verbal abuse was very present for me. Um and I from that really developed an inner critic that was real strong, it was a real, a real tough one we'll say. But to kind of help myself um shift from listening primarily to that voice. There is um just like quickly I can share like a little like somatic, like little tip Um So there is, there's this practice called uncoupling. And so when you think of something like the inner critic, um if you kind of like close your eyes, like take a few breaths, maybe connect to their voice, connect to the voice of that inner critic and notice kind of where in the body it's coming from. Like for me, my inner critic always kind of lives like at the very top of my chest, like I can like feel those sensations building as I connect into that experience and then to kind of separate myself from that and uncouple myself from that association to that voice. I also tap into the voice that knows that I am whole, that I am worthy that I am safe and that voice always tends to live, you know, in like my gut, like in like the very like bottom of my belly. And so just kind of resting my hands on both places right now so that I have like my one hand on my upper chest where that inner critic kind of lives and hangs out the other hand on my low belly, where that voice that just knows that I'm whole, that I'm worthy where that lives and just kind of notice the distinction between those two places. And I, I can then very, very gradually kind of reorient my focus down into that low belly area, into that place of truth into that like aligned place that knows that I'm safe and that everything is OK. And just like, and this is a very gradual practice that can be done over time. Just noticing kind of the distinction between the two places and where you want to orient your focus. Because the inner critic voice can a lot of the times if that's an experience where you can feel a lot louder and it can feel like a lot more surface, a lot more present but very kind of gently and over time shifting, what you focus on intentionally, right, consciously, directly, actively like really intentionally bringing yourself down into that place. Um That just feels more true for you. Over time, the inner critic can get a little softer and while it probably will still come up, it might not feel as overpowering because you know that there are other options, you know that there are other voices inside you. Thank you for sharing that. I love that. And I, I hope, I think you described it so well for people to be able to do themselves at home. So I think so, I think you did, I think the other two, the other thing too, like as we um mentioning this is that you change it even as the maybe you exposed to the trauma, maybe you've been out of it for periods of time and you go back to it, another traumatic event happens, you're because you're getting stronger, your reactions and stuff to it. Also change like you might, you know, it may still be there, it may come out differently like it may, you may be ******* yourself. Um Just I'm just like noticing with myself or you may experience something else instead of like maybe like going in or, or maybe weakening. Mhm You're angry and so something else wants to expand out. And so again, the healing process of that shifts again and it's like you need to relearn or re understand your, your body, your mind and, and in uh allowing that trauma to kind of uh like form a scar and, and mend again because it's been reopened. Mhm. Mhm Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And I love how you said um that kind of with each, like with each practice, you get a little bit stronger and that's really what it's all about, right? Finding like the micro moments where you can um just kind of like exercise the flexibility of your nervous system because we're very much designed to go in and out of this regulation and regulation with, right? Like go into the survival response and then back into a more regulated state. Like our bodies are meant to do that. It's just a matter of how long are we spending in each state, right? Like what is the recovery process like after we experience stress and how are we really supporting ourselves through that? Because with trauma um without the resources to, you don't really know how to support ourselves through that we stay in those survival responses because the body doesn't see another way out. So externally, even if, even when there still is trauma present, there is, there are still ways to work with yourself internally so that you can better hold what's going on in your environment and the feelings and the stress that can be very real and that can really come with that. Yeah, absolutely. The other thing too, II I saw somewhere I don't remember who said it. Someone said it, I saw he was talking about like you, he was mentioning and I'm like, I kind of agree with this to a point that you're never, you never healed. You can't, it's not never. But what it is is that you're feeling your instead of with, you know, the things that happened to you and and the things, the trauma and horrible things that happened, you're actually just filling yourself with love. So making yourself feel more love to hit like the the the other stuff is still there. But if you're feeling yourself with more love data just allows your nervous system more to relax and that's the healing but you're never healed. Yeah, that's really beautiful and yeah, and very true and right, I find that um healing is just a process in being able to kind of safely hold everything that you experience, right? So absolutely, really filling yourself with love and just the remembrance of who you really are versus who, you know, maybe you learned or you were taught that you had to be and healing is not a way to like, fix yourself, right? Fix, trying to approach it through this desire to really fix yourself is a survival based kind of concept, right? There's more force, there's more like abrupt change, whereas just allowing yourself to kind of soften and hold and support yourself through everything that's here right now. Like just like feeling like the difference between that like fixing yourself versus just like relaxing into and just like holding yourself like just the difference there. It's like, oh, like what a relief, right? It feels so good, it feels so much better. Um So healing is never never fixing yourself, right? There's nothing to fix. It's just a matter of changing how you support yourself. Exactly. Exactly. Have you read the book? Do you know Dr Gabor Mate? He's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. His book, The Myth of Normal. He was mentioning um you know, he said healing like I like how he says it originated from the word wholeness and it really just is talking about like the integrity of a person. Yes, yes. Healing is a return to wholeness to this remembrance that we are whole and being able to really access that integrity. I think when it comes to trauma, like we abandon ourselves because we had to, right, we have to change and manipulate ourselves in order to survive in our external environment. But integrity to me is really coming back to the core of who you are and feeling safe in order to do so. And so the process of healing can really strengthen your internal resources so that you feel able to come back to that integrity. And you're not just kind of like flying all over the place, um getting lost in the chaos, which is so easy to do. But over time, you're gradually able to ground yourself more and more and more beautifully said, I love that. The other thing I think, I think a lot of people and this is, and I love that. He said that it's like, you know, people like, oh time will heal. No, it doesn't. People keep saying this. No, it doesn't work that way. Like it's not, there's so much more like a lot of factors and a lot of things involved in it. And, you know, we're mentioning, you know, integrity of a person and like coming back to yourself. So I think, yeah, the other thing that he, that he talked about um first, I want to put the definition out there for people to understand trauma and what it is. So trauma is a according to him, which is he's designed to be like the, the guru of this trauma is a psychic wound that leaves a scar or imprint in the nervous system body or psychic. So people confuse trauma for a difficult experience. So he's like, people have difficult experiences and say they were traumatized and no, they weren't. They had a difficult experience. And I think a lot of the time too, the word is used everywhere where it's like, no. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going, yeah, I'm going to, um, yeah, just share like what comes through for me there. I think, um, unresolved trauma can lead to feeling like experiences are more difficult because unresolved trauma really impacts our ability to manage day to day stress. So I think um when those stressors come up, it can feel so much bigger because we don't have the resources to handle it to move through it. Um So I think it all kind of stems. Yeah, from, from those wounds. Hm. I like that perspective. I didn't think of it like that. Thank you for sharing that. I like that. I think um what he said and what, what made a lot of sense too is that trauma is stopping people from like emotional growth and development. And some, I used to think before like hearing that um before hearing him say that, you know, I thought, you know, a lot of trauma helps you grow, but it actually can stunt people from growth. Mhm Yeah, I think it, yeah, I think that's a really um great topic. I think trauma can inspire you to grow. Um I think it can push you to want to grow. And change your life. Um So maybe it's the catalyst um physiologically, I'm not so sure it is the growth itself, right? Because it kind of like stops a lot of those processes. Um But that's why too, I think, you know, when people look at um right avenues for emotional growth, self development, whatever it might be that it can feel a little bit intimidating, maybe because of some of that unresolved trauma in like a chronic state of this regulation. So that's why too, I think no matter you know, what kind of environment you're in, whether you're out of the trauma or if it's still very present for you, is that just kind of simple practices to continue to regulate your nervous system daily is going to strengthen those like inner resources so that the emotional growth, the self development and those daily stressors and everything don't feel so overwhelming. So I think having some kind of dedicated time again, whether that be like five minutes going back to what we were saying earlier, five minutes behind a closed door, an hour outside, whatever is possible for you to really intentionally work with yourself and strengthen your body and strengthen your nervous system over time, like all of that is going to build up so that you can approach life in a new way and not feel so overwhelmed by it all. Sure. Yeah, I think the other thing that comes to my mind is that the people around, you can play a significant role. Like, you know, they say if you can talk with someone about the trauma and it doesn't have to not talking about a therapist. You talk to a supportive friend about the trauma and you talk about it because they're kind of giving you a positive experience about the trauma. It can kind of a little bit play, rewrite the story in your mind. It helps with the healing too. Yeah, having some source of co regulation is massive, massive for healing. So whether that is a trusted friend, whether it is a family member who understands the situation um or even like nature, right? Like we can co regulate with nature too. Having stuff like that is um yeah, a really beautiful piece to the process and just having that space where you can feel safe. I love that you mentioned nature too. Like my moment out of the period of time was to uh a little island in the bottom of Australia where there's lots of nature and I was going on weekly walks. I'd go on weekly nature walk like a not a hike, hike like a walk, waterfalls just being in nature and that period like help the recovery uh significantly during the week. Yeah, I believe it definitely even now like um even though personally I'm not in the traumatic environment anymore, um I still, you know, I have trauma therapy weekly by weekly and afterwards. Um you know, because it brings up a lot of stuff. I remember a lot and, um, afterwards I always, always go for a walk, you know, I put my feet in the water, even taking a shower or washing your hands. Right. That's an element of cleansing and regulating 100%. So, um, yeah, if like, if going for a walk outside in nature is impossible. Um, there's other options such as such as that when you mentioned to like the glimmers, like it's like those glimmers could be also like, even if you're in a traumatic thing and things are happening, sometimes there are not good days and sometimes there are good moments. I think a significant thing for me that played a role. I'm curious about you but um was when those really good or like good things happen or good moments happen, good experience happen. I let myself linger on them like I let myself stay in them. Uh Stop what I'm doing and look at who's around me, who's with me, what's happening and like try and take it in as much as I could because for us to like r ruminate over positive experiences is much harder for us than to ruminate on negative experiences. People don't ruminate on positive experiences, like a lot of people don't unless they're training their brain to do that. But being able to take in and the good when it's happening and let yourself feel it. So it helps you go back to it when something bad is happening. So what they say this book that I it's called a Buddhist Brain. It's by Rick Hansen. If you're able to do that and recall more and really feel the good. When you're in the bad moments, your brain will protect you and bring up the emotion of the good and bring that positive feelings back to you naturally will come up to help the negative impact not be so strong. Mhm mhm Yeah. It's like almost like a somatic kind of remembrance. Um Yeah, and yeah, it's um going back to your point to that, it's easier to kind of ruminate about the bad stuff over the good stuff. It's really because we're hardwired for survival, right? Our body is always, always, always trying to keep us alive. So it's really a practice to um be present in those glimmers in those good moments. And I know that for me, um it was such a process because I would have good moments but, and I, I see this now at the time, I didn't see it. Um but even within the good moments, I would be dissociating. I feel like because my body finally felt like it could like rest for a hot second and I just kind of like checked out. Um but over time, right through my own recovery, I did learn the importance of really being present in those moments and teaching my body that it was safe to be present in those moments. So some ways to kind of do that, that I still continue to do that are um kind of bring all of like my senses online. So for instance, like being able to touch a surface around me or see something, you know, in my immediate surroundings that feels really safe and really connected for me. Um being able to feel like the air on my skin, taste anything that's around me, just kind of incorporating right, all of the senses to really safely bring myself into that moment. A big one for me that I continue to do always is um feeling like the weight of my body in that moment. So like if I'm sitting like right now, like feeling my hips in my seat, if I'm standing, feeling my feet on the ground, like letting my muscles be soft and kind of like doing a little body scan and just like letting myself relax and really take that in and really breathe like really deeply and really slowly. Um And that too is going to right, kind of bring your body back into that regulated state, strengthening that inner resiliency allowing you to be more flexible with the nervous system responses. So that when the survival response is present, when a threat, um at the varying levels that they can come through, um when that is present, that you can kind of discern how you show up for it versus being like completely overtaken by it. Mm When um, you don't have to share this so I can cut it out when those moments were happening for you. Um You know, something significantly happened. I, I'll share also. Um, did you, did you ever like, you know, your father a flight? You kind of went like you like, had a panic attack like you kind of, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So what was interesting with my experience is that um when I was in the trauma actually, and this ties back in nicely to what we're talking about before. Um when I was in the traumatic environment, I was like cool, calm, collected. Um I never panicked. It was definitely more of a freeze. But what that did was because it, it, it kind of brought me into like that chronic state of dysregulation so that when some other daily stressor would come up, that's what would trigger a really extreme fight or flight response and could ultimately trigger a panic attack because I could not handle stress. Um So for example, um you know, I'm I'm recalling one time. Um I got some news about a family member, I was away at college and um I got some news about a family member and it was tough, it was really tough to receive and I like, I took a shower and I was just thinking about it and I was like really driving myself really crazy about it and it triggered a panic attack, um, because I couldn't handle it. Whereas if, you know, if I knew how to, um, hold that stress, if my nervous system at the time had been a little more flexible and a little more resilient, it would have been a different experience. Um, and I, I, you know, I don't want to like, change that experience for myself, but just kind of thinking about it now. Um, yeah, when the trauma was happening, it was more of a freeze and I was very composed, but it led me to not be able to deal with life. Hm. Interesting. Yeah. No. Thank you for sharing that and being vulnerable and being open to it. I'll share, I'll share it also. Um, now you're saying freeze, I may have frozen and I don't, so my experience something intense was happening and I like froze but froze and passed out and stopped breathing. Um, and then had to come come like it was my fight or flight. It's like the body completely stop yourself from breathing. So I wouldn't know if we'd call that a panic attack or something else. Oh, but that's the, the other thing. So it's like your body wants to shut down completely. In that case, it's like what tipped it for, you know, not what like whatever was happening in front of you, but how could you prevent that from happening? Like in Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like how could you prevent that kind of reaction from you completely shut down like that, that much. It, it can happen, that can happen too. Um, luckily it only happened once but my first time experiencing it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's really scary. I want to, like, recognize you for that and, like, really, like, honor your experience because that, that's, that's scary. Yeah. I was like, oh, this is not something I've experienced before. I never, I never had, I never had any of that and then that happened. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, um, yeah, if anyone listening, um had a similar experience or they're looking for, yeah, resources to support themselves. I think too, going back to um, kind of that consistent, um those like tiny, consistent moments to either work with yourself, you know, using your body in some way to support your nervous system and then continuing to consistently notice those glimmers as well and what those feel like and what your body feels like in those moments. Um I think that those two components ultimately, like, you know, the, the theme of the conversation is about really like, um just strengthening the nervous system so that when that stress does come up, it doesn't feel so overwhelming and like the body has no other option but to fully shut down. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Um I can see how that definitely would help. I think probably too, like, maybe like oxygen, things like chemically, like, maybe cortisol was too high, things like that and there would have been a number of things going on the body just like for me to really recover here. I need to shut down. Hm. That could be also like, you know, if we look at it. Um, I wonder, I, I'm actually curious about this. I don't know if you've researched this or not, but have you found in your research and your experiences with your clients that healing from like traumas and, and, and so on? Does it vary culturally? Yes. Yeah. Um I have found um, a difference in, I think the hold that the survival energy can have on people because in a lot of cases it is generational, you know, it is ancestral. It comes from a very deep line where there was a very deep need to really survive. And, um, and a part of me always wants to really honor that history because the need to survive was really so real. Um and the difficulties that people faced were really so real. So we're not trying to get rid of it all necessarily, but rather, um yeah, how can we work with your body in this moment right now to hold that experience and to let it be a little bit softer. Um Yeah, because I think of things like, you know, there are people who have like, I, I don't wanna measure traumas but, you know, people who are for example, in Syria, in Palestine and they're like, they've been completely bombed and things and their families are families torn apart. It's something, you know, they're, they're living, uh, in heavy traumatic experiences. Yeah. It's, it's like a next level kind of thing. And I think people confuse, like, I, you know, people like, oh, well, they've been going through it for years so, like, they're fine or like, they're used to it and people don't realize they're still humans too. Like, don't, you know, diminish someone's experiences or how much they can handle or not handle because being exposed to it for so many years. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, yeah, and, and I'll say, yeah, um, being able to quote unquote, handle, trauma is a trauma response in itself. Right. That is your survival at work. Um, so just because someone may seem like they can handle it doesn't mean that their physiology isn't really being affected. Yeah. Exactly. So, it's a, um, I think I, I love that we're talking about this and, like, we're, you know, looking at it from all kind of angles and mentoring a lot of different ways to strengthen our nervous system and, and so on, I think, um, just to help people have, like, help them understand others better and have, uh, you know, better perspectives on, on how to handle no wrong word, how to help themselves and help and help others. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That's what it's all about. Yeah. Exactly. Well, thank you so much. I love this conversation with you. Is there anything else you want to include and add in this about this topic that you feel that we should add? Just that, you know, my, my continued invitation for everyone is to um, be patient with yourself. Um I think, you know, I, I know firsthand how frustrating it can be to, um to just feel like hopeless and like totally powerless to your emotions. And a lot of the times these like these different practices to work with your body and work with your nervous system, they're very subtle and it can feel like a very slow process. And when you're in such a desperate place for change, it can be even more frustrating. But my invitation, yeah, is just to be compassionate with yourself, really honor yourself for all that you've been through, honor yourself for all that you're going through right now and honor yourself for this desire to really help yourself to really support yourself. Like that's huge, right? So many people feel like they just have to give up. And, you know, if, if you're listening to this podcast, then I assume that um that you think that there's a little something different out there for you and there is, and you deserve everything like you deserve so much goodness in life. And um it makes me, makes me emotional. Um And so just keep going. Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you. So much Maggie. I always love to ask people. I actually wanted to mention one more thing actually because um before this question brought up some anxiety for me because it made, I don't know what it did with you, but it did bring up. That's some anxiety. My type of anxiety that I've always like that I experience is, is actually like associated with betrayal. I always, it's always right in my back because the word or the phrase had to have my back is significant for me. So that form of anxiety. So just, you know, you think about the past, you think about it. And so that kind of yeah, uh brought up some of that like it's, it's like unpacking, like talking with you and I haven't mentioned what I mentioned actually ever before. So thank you for allowing me the space to do that. But yeah, it did that for me. Did it do that for you or do anything like that? This question? So yeah, it did bring up anxiety for me. Um which, and I'm glad that you made this connection to um your own experience and how it's similar to other experiences of your anxiety because yeah, it is similar to kind of my like a theme that continues to come up for me is that um I just wanted to make sure that whatever I could provide on this topic would be good enough. And that is a continued theme for me, like I, I always, always, you know, I'm just like, so worried about not being good enough and saying something wrong and um especially with the topics such as such as this that I care so deeply about and I really want to treat it with the respect that it deserves. Um and make sure that I'm kind of honoring like all experiences and so that can, yeah, definitely force me to kind of like get in my head and get back into a lot of those old fears like it gonna be, is it gonna be good enough? It's more than enough. It was beautiful. I really love it. I love it. Thank you. And Tiffany, I've got your back. So, thank you. Thank you. So, the last question I love to ask all my guest speakers is how has the conversation with me right now? Made you reflect or highlight anything to you? It's a continued reflection for me where um I always, you know, want to be more and more mindful of others experiences and different people's experiences, right? Different people all over the world because as we kind of started this conversation talking about how like a lot of that emotional experience can be. Um the same, I like kind of seeing that in a lot of different people's um different people's experience, how we all really have the those same emotions. Um But how would the experience itself looks is very different? Um And so I just love to kind of continue to learn about that and have more conversations about that. Beautiful. Well, I'm glad that it, that it did that for you. I just wanna, the other thing I notice is coming to my mind just wanted to point out like people I think need to remember that like if something can touch like this untouched wound inside of you and your reaction is as if the wound happened for the very first time. No. Yeah. And it's um yeah, and you see it in others and you, and you, you sometimes you don't understand people's reactions and so on and, and you feel it in yourself. So um that's why I get, you know, the healing process and, and trying, I think, to allow yourself to be vulnerable and have these conversations and talk and um understand yourself and the modalities and things that you just mentioned and throughout this conversation, I think will help people significantly. So, thank you for sharing all of that and I think it will help people um heal and, and help them come home to themselves. So, um yeah, I hope so. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to get to know you. If you enjoy this podcast rate review and share the podcast on Facebook or Instagram, you can tag me at, get to know you podcast in my mission to open conversations and access deeper dialogue. I want to hear from you listeners the question again how to kill with continued traumatic exposure. Leave an audio video or a message on the Facebook or Instagram page of your response to today's question, including your name and where you were from. We will include some different responses in next week's. Get to know you cafe to further deepen dialogue on this topic. If you have any topics you would like us to discuss, be sure to tag me to post your question. Join us every Tuesday on. Get to know you.