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Hello and welcome. My name is Tiffany Farag and welcome to get to know you a podcast for those who want to open conversations and access deeper dialogue where conversations can become stronger when we explore our thinking and behavior. Every Tuesday, a new question will be asked to a guest speaker, genuine people here to have insightful conversations. If you are looking for a different thoughtful gift, check out the 11 proven ways to deepen all your relationships in 2023 link a description. My guest speaker today is from Chicago. She is the founder of Ela Denier, founder of Conscious beauty Collective, co-founder and CEO at Masami, a marketer entrepreneur and advisor, an advertising executive turned entrepreneur with a passion for leveraging creative thinking to build businesses and ultimately help brands survive and thrive. She has a strong experience in cultural and business transformation, digital strategy, consumer insights, talent, design, and marketing modernization. She describes herself as a learned extrovert but an introvert at heart. The story of Masami began with the beliefs that you don't need to trade off clean beauty for hair care that performs. They found their answer from the rich seas of the Northeastern Japan where the three waters of the world embrace and nature in all her beauty and diversity flourishes the majestic fields of green swaying waka seaweed nature has been fit to gift us. One of her great nutrient rich treasures. A small miraculous ocean botanical known as Meka harvested for centuries by Japanese farmers for its healthy giving properties. This marine inspired Masami for more information. Go to love Masami dot com. Welcoming back Lynn Power to get to know you. Welcome Lynn. Thank you. Oh my gosh. What an intro. Thank you. An incredible intro. So good to be back. So good to have you back. So conscious beauty collective, I saw actually you went to one of the Hilton hotels recently and you looked at what product so they kind of leave there that some of us sneak back into our purses and take home with us. So a lot of, yeah, you saw like I had a look there that the packaging doesn't have ingredients. Um You know, you don't, the brand doesn't exist anymore. You can't even find it. And that was kind of interesting like why do you think you were in Hilton? What recently? Right? That video was recent. Yeah, I was, I was at a conference. I stayed at a Hilton but a boutique hotel with Hilton and I've been doing this the last couple of months now that I've been out and about again, I've been checking out the products that hotels have, and I gotta tell you so far I have yet to find one that's actually clean. They almost all have toxic stuff in them. And in the case of Hilton, I'm sorry. But, like Crabtree and Evelyn used to be a known brand, but apparently it's defunct. If you go on their website, it'll say all the products are sold out because they don't exist anymore. And, like, what the heck, like, come on, Hilton, you can do better and it's the Hilton, what's going on? Yeah, like it's just, it's just, it's pretty lame actually. So yeah, I decided. So conscious Beauty Collective is our group of like 30 something because it changes how the number Indie Beauty and Wellness brands. We've come together to help each other grow and so we do pop up stores, we do co marketing, we do all sorts of stuff, but that has become my kind of, I don't know if you wanna call it like my banner for outing bad behavior and brands. I like it. That's it as you should. I don't like to do that as Masami because we're a Japanese inspired brand and the Japanese wouldn't approve. But like, I like that as conscious beauty collective. I feel like it's our responsibility to change the industry. So that's kind of the point. And so yeah, pointing out some of these things I think is only fair and if, if Hilton doesn't wanna be having me make videos like that. They gotta, they gotta do something about that. Change it up. Absolutely. It, it's surprising for the Hilton Hotel. What is that supposed to be up there? With like the top 10 hotels? No, like to have, for them to have this and then a product that doesn't even exist anymore. Like, do they have a warehouse that they bought them all out? And they've got a warehouse somewhere and they just keep pulling them out? Like, what's going on? That was my thought. I'm like, they either licensed the name because they were like, ok, it's a recognizable name and they put some generic private label product in there or they just bought so much that they have inventory and they're just unloading it or they just don't care and they haven't really thought about it. Yeah. I think they don't care. They haven't thought about it. I think that maybe the, on the marketing team they probably, no, no females. Yeah. Maybe that's it because come on, like, really? But maybe now they'll be aware of it and maybe they'll do something and maybe they'll actually get a good clean brand in there. That would be nice as they should. Why do you think people should be, be more conscious of, like, what they're putting on their skin no matter where, even if it's free, then you can get it from a hotel. I used to swipe all that stuff and I don't anymore because I'm like, now it's, now I know it's bad before I, you know, before, when I didn't really realize it. Yeah, I would, I would swipe it. Um, and I think a lot of people do because it's, that's what it's there for. And I also feel like, because I'm so sustainable, like, my, my mindset is so sustainably minded that if I use half of it up in the shower, I feel guilty leaving and having them throw out the other half. Even though it's, you know, we're talking about like a half an ounce of product. Not like a lot of product, but it's just like, I just feel like, oh, that's not eco-friendly to throw it out. I'll take it and that way, use it up and recycle it. At least I know that the packaging is gonna go in the right place. But, um, but then I'm just perpetuating this cycle of using toxic products. Right. So, it's sort of like you can't really win. No. Exactly. I totally understand that. I do the same. It's like, oh, I used a little bit, oh, if I leave it here they're gonna throw it out, they're not gonna give it to the next person. So I might as well just take it home with me. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And you're right. Like, I've been to other, like, I think many hotels are little bottles that they do have. Like, I've had a look as well to see, like, Oh is this shampoo? Because my hair I'm like, oh ****, I didn't bring shampoo with me or conditioner. Is this product gonna be OK with, for my hair? And I'll have a look at the back. I'm like, I can't see what's in it. I don't know what's in it. Uh A sour surprises amount don't have, they don't include the ingredients and sometimes they're bigger bottles that are in the shower, the kind that are like those refillable ones that are, you know, they make them so that you can't take them with this spray. You press you press a button. Yeah, which I do think is better because it is more sustainable but you should still have the ingredients on there like, you know, I just think transparency is completely lack. No, I get what you mean and abs that's even, it's even worse. Like they're literally getting a, a bucket or whatever of shampoo or condition and pouring it in and we don't know what's, what's going in like and a lot of the things too like recently, even with food and stuff like not just like stuff that we're putting on our hair and our skin and so on just with food. Like do you know, like for women, like more and more women I speak to it may, I don't know, it's just probably what we're ingesting but it could be what we're putting on our bodies as well. But a lot of women have PC OS. Have you heard that lately? Like, so much more women are having PC OS problems like cysts in their ovaries. Like, it's just like we need to be more conscious of what we're putting in our mouths, what we're putting in our bodies. What, you know, because it's, it's, we don't know the, the effects. Like we, we find out in 100 200 years time. But, you know, I mean, a lot of, well, thal are known to be endocrine disruptors. So that could have a direct link to what you're talking about. Um, you know, the other thing is, you know, you know, that I had breast cancer in the last year. Yeah. Um, and it is also shocking to me how many people I know who are like, oh, yeah, I had something or my mother or my sister or my aunt or my best friend or, like, everybody seems to know somebody who's got cancer. So it makes me wonder are the numbers going up? Somebody, I mean, I could look this up, I suppose I could Google it. But, or like my oncologist, I asked her about it and she's like, well, it's just because you're because people are living longer and if you, you know, the way that sort of cancer works is if you live long enough you'll get it because it's just, and I'm like, yeah, but I don't agree with that. No, I don't agree with that. My two cousins, two of my cousins, one was 18. She got a rare aggressive cancer in her leg. And my other cousin, he's, he was 26 or 27 at the time and he got a rare aggressive brain tumor. They're both in now. Exactly. So, it's like, it's not, and they're both on the same side of the family. So, it's like, it's like, no, there's something happening, there's something in our foods or like, you know, the products that we, yeah. Right. Like, it could be. That's the thing. I mean, so my, one of my best friends had a very similar type of cancer that I had a year before me and we live five miles from each other. So we literally were like, ok, what, like, it's weird because she's also 49. I'm 55. But like, neither of us are like cancer old if you know what I mean? Like they say that if you get cancer when you're, I think it's like over 65 or 70 that they just chalk it up to age. But like, neither of us fit the bill. So, and we both had what's I had a very rare, aggressive kind of breast cancer, but it was also her too positive. She had her too positive. So we're both like, ok, it's not genetic. Neither of us tested for the genetic, you know, predisposition or the gene, the Burka gene or, or any cancer gene. Frankly, Um So, and it's not hormonal in either of our cases because you can be progesterone or estrogen positive and we weren't. So then it's like, what? So it's gotta be something in our environment that triggered it, right? So we're literally sitting there going, is it our water? Is it, you know the fact that both of us like to renovate houses and we're around like fumes and maybe asbestos and who knows? What else? Do you know what I mean? When you're digging up wars and sanding things that are 50 years old, like, who knows? So, I don't know. I mean, but it could also be what we're eating. It could also be what we're beauty products we're using. I mean, I there's another founder in the Conscious Beauty Collective. Her brand is called Simp Pure. She makes beautiful skincare products but she got breast cancer when she was 28. She was convinced it was her deodorant. Oh, and so yeah. And so she started, she launched her brand with a clean deodorant and then from there went into skin care and other stuff and I mean, maybe she's right. You know, I think they're finding out now that like aluminum and deodorant is actually quite bad for you. So, I don't know, could be all of those. But yeah, you think there's got to be one of the things that just kind of triggered it, right? Because like, why all of a sudden did I have this huge fast growing tumor. Exactly. If it's not genetic, it's definitely environmental. And like, yeah, absolutely. I actually like on the point of water, honestly, like, I have this, like, I like to drink good water. I have to say in Melbourne, Australia we have very good water in our pubs. It's very, very nice. I, I tell people that but when I, I like to, like, test the water in a way when I travel around, like, when I travel to different countries and, um, I haven't been to the US yet so I don't know if you guys have good water over there but, uh, within Europe and Australia, um, and I feel like it does make like there's some water but I have to keep drinking. It doesn't make me feel like I'm not, I'm like, I'm still, it's like I didn't drink anything. You don't feel hydrated. Yeah, it is. It's got to be something to do with the mineral content. So this is the thing. The US pretty much has good water. Although there are pockets of places where the water has been contaminated and that's become a whole thing. Um, New York City ironically has some of the best water in the country. Ok. Because people assume it doesn't because it's New York, you know, you just, um, you're just picturing dirty pipes going into lots of buildings. But actually the tap water in New York is, like, really good. Um, but you know, like I said, it's, who knows? I mean, I'm, I'm here in Palm Springs now, this home was built in nine in the 19 forties. Ok. I don't know what the pipe situation is here. That's true. You know. So you could be, the water could be from, you know, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, and then there was the whole thing about, like, ok, bottled water is supposed to be better But then it's like, wait, is it better? Because then if you leave your bottled water in the sun and the heat, like can create, like, it can actually make the plastic kind of leak out into the water. That's bad. That's the, that's like, so, you know, it's hard to know what the right thing to do is, is my point. It's like, yeah, we don't know unless we all test it and then we all come together and put it recorded on an Excel spreadsheet and we're not going to know. Yeah. Right. A big global spreadsheet. Exactly. Exactly. We need, everyone needs a document like a Google doc, a Google Excel spreadsheet accessible for everybody. Yes. That's an idea. Yeah. Why not? That way everyone can put in their information, what water they're drinking or where, like, maybe they've got like, everyone does a respective test or, you know, we could do a couple of tests and everyone can put their data in. Why not? That's absolutely, it is an idea. It's a good idea. There's got to be some, like, water organization that could just do that. Right. Like, take down something like that. Dogs agree. I think so. I think so. But it's like, it is a good idea because otherwise we don't know, we don't have transparency. I mean, I do get reports on the town water from the Berkshires out east. They would send a report that says, like, ok, we tested it, Here's what's in it. Maybe I could get it from Palm Springs too. But the problem is that's the water that's in the big tubs at their, you know, it's not the water by the time it travels. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It needs to be individual tested. No, it can't be like from a, a big, it can't be from like a base. It has to be like individuals in their data. How has your, in the last year? So, how is your, like, consciousness of, like, what, what has changed for you other than the, obviously the medicines and things like that and your, you know, the effect of the cancer itself. But like with what, how you live and eat and your wellness and what you put in your, you know, ingest and what you put on your body. Like, how was, how's your thoughts about it changed in this last? I mean, I'm definitely way more aware, you know, I never used to take supplements before. Yeah, I just didn't think I really needed them. I never really had any issues. I mean, the only thing I really did was I had, I was taking Synthroid because I have Hashimotos, which is an autoimmune disease. So, um, and that was fine and I just would take my pill every day, but I never took supplements. Now, there's a bunch of stuff. I take preventatively. I actually take Metformin, which is a diabetes drug. And the reason I take it is because there have been some studies come out, have come out that show that it actually can kill cancer cells. And I think the reason it does, it, it's because it, it eliminates sugar in your body and cancer feeds off sugar. So like just logically you're like, oh, that kind of makes sense. Cancer like sugar, this helps you eliminate the sugar. Great. So I think for anyone who's had cancer or is at risk, it's, it's like from my research and again, you do your own research. Don't listen to me. I'm not a doctor but like, I think that it actually doesn't really have any side effects that I can tell. And so I actually think I've had, I've heard doctors call it a longevity drug. It's actually used for many things. It's like, yeah, so even like, so with PC OS as well, they're saying take Metformin for PC OS too, like it helps in, yeah, it's got many benefits alongside a, like a, a vitamin as well. So a lot of women who are with PC O, normally you have to go on the pill. But they're like, oh, Met, like Metformin's been helping a lot of women alongside multivitamins and things like that. I started taking a multivitamin the last four or five months. And I've noticed I'm like, oh, you know, my hair's darker, like the colors coming out more and my bones and my joints have stopped hurting me. Ok. So that's the other interesting thing is after chemo, I was having a lot of joint pain and my oncologist said start taking vitamin D and vitamin B 12. So now I actually just take a multi because it has both of those plus and it does help like it really makes a difference. Um weirdly because I was really like the chemo really um does, it does a number on your body and yes, it kills the tumor, which is what it's supposed to do, but it also kills a lot of other stuff. It kills your fast growing cells, which are like, so I still have problems with my nose. Like my nose will bleed just because it killed all that lining. You know, it, it just a lot of people get mouth sores. I had problems with my eyes watering and tearing up and just things like that. So now, yeah, I take a multi which solves, helps with the joint pain. And then I also take two other things. I take Fudo. I don't know if I'm saying it right. It's Japanese seaweed supplement. That's actually part of my, my hair care product. It's in the, in the seaweed that we put in our shampoo. It has this nutrient in it called Bin or Fudo. I'm not sure. But it, it also, there's a lot of studies in Japan that it can kill cancer cells. It helps cancer cells kill themselves. So I don't know how it actually works. Like I can kind of logic the Metformin because it's like, oh, it removes sugar and cancer like sugar. Um, I'm not exactly sure but it's, it's got this cancer fighting property. And then the other one I take is coriolis mushroom, which is, um, turkey tail mushroom. And it's similar to the seaweed where it's been proven to kill cancer cells. So my attitude about both of those is I don't, I, again, I've looked at the research, I don't see any downside to taking them. They're both natural. And if it helps me keep the cancer from coming back, then I'm gonna take it because the type of cancer I had has a very high reoccurrence rate, like 80%. Yeah. And so, um, I still have my port. Yeah. Which they want to keep in for two years because they don't wanna have to do the surgery to take it out. And then, because sometimes your port doesn't always function the way it's supposed to because it can scar and there can be, you know, so you, because I have a port that's functioning well, they're like, we don't want to touch it for two years and if you make it through the two years, then we'll take it out. So that's so. But in the meantime, I am taking, I am more aware, I'm trying to not drink as much because alcohol is really not good. But at the same time, a glass of wine for me is very satisfying and relaxing. And so I don't want to give up my wine just, you know, so I'm just trying to be more mindful and not have it every night like I was doing during COVID, I'm trying to be like, ok, two or three nights a week, I'll have, I'll have my glass of wine. Um, and so that's my compromise there. My husband would probably rather have me just cut it out completely. And I'm like, you know, I mean, this is really, I think, you know. Yeah, I think I agree with you, you know, like doing that or, you know, or, you know, a glass of wine. I think it's fine. Like, you know, I, I think you're doing so much already for your health and like, you're so aware of it all and, you know, uh I think that's, that's, I don't think this glass of wine is gonna do anything but I come on with everything else that you're doing like it can't be like used as I feel like I'm offsetting it. Right. Like I'm using those supplements, hopefully enable myself to have that glass of wine and not feel guilty. I'm also just trying to be way more like I always was active. Sorry, my dogs are at it again. But um, I'm trying to just be more, um, um, more mindful of like getting out, getting exercise. I walk places. I don't, you know, it, you know, it's, and my husband's kind of adopted a similar strategy. I'm trying to get my daughter on board now and my son as well, which is a little harder, but like we're gonna walk to the grocery store, it's a mile away. It's not even that far, like it's 20 minutes we're gonna walk um, and stuff like that. Um So that was really good. I will say one thing mentally that the cancer was really helpful for and I know it sounds weird to say that cancer is helpful for anything. But, um, you know, I really did sit down and rethink my priorities because I would have these like 67 hour chemo sessions, you know, because I was getting a lot of stuff and you're sitting there thinking about like, what do you want to spend more time doing? What do you want to spend less time doing? I would think about my business, but I would think about that, like, what, you know, what stuff do I want to spend more time doing less time doing, you know, and actually I would ii I, that's how the Conscious Beauty Collective came about because I'm thinking, well, brand partnerships have been awesome. They've really helped my business, but it's hard for me to scale those because I'm doing one at a time. What if I could do 30? How do I do that? You know? And then it was like, well, wait a minute, if I did a pop up store and got all these brands together, we could help each other. So then it was like, um, you know, let me see if brands are interested and they were and then it was like, ok, that's cool. Let's try that. So, but that idea really came out of me kind of prioritizing the things that I wanted to focus on and the things that are working and allow me to not have to deal with the things that aren't. Yeah, that's so great. I like, I like, that's incredible for you to have that mindset. Like where, you know, you've obviously got this resilient mindset that you, you know, that um knowing a little bit about your background, like you clearly had it, you know, from a younger age and you've, you've got it through this difficult moment as well. So, like, where do you, how do you gain with, do you think it's genetic? Do you think you're born with it or something that you've built? Yeah. It's a really good question and I actually would love to read that book called Grit by who's the author? I think an, is it Angela Duckworth or something? Yeah. Angela Duckworth. I don't know if I got it right. But something like, but, because I do think, I think it's a little of both, in my opinion. I think that some people are just naturally, more, um, oriented to persevering and just sort of like grinding it out and other people have a harder time doing that and there is sort of this um fortitude. But I also think it's, it's, this is gonna sound like a weird analogy. But have you read the love languages? Yes, I have the five love languages. Yeah. I'm a um acts of service. OK. Actions. It makes a lot of sense because I am a get **** done kind of person. I get a lot of pleasure with making things happen, getting things done. I don't like to wait. I don't procrastinate. My husband's the opposite. He is a quality time. OK. Yeah. But I think resilience for people like me who are more access service is a little easier because we grind it out. Does that make sense? Like we're used to just like that is how we function like we need to do something. So it's like we need to do something. So when you do something, things happen, right? And you just feel at least mentally like you're not standing still. Exactly. And I think that's a big part of resilience is not standing still, like, feeling like you're moving towards something, even if that something is not any better than where you were. At least it's the, you know, an object in motion stays in motion. It's that sort of philosophy of like you are at least doing, you know, and, and that, for me mentally is really helpful because you're like, you know what you're trying, it may not work, you know, and with the cancer treatment, I have no control whether it's gonna work or not. And I think, you know, I used to be annoyed when people would be like, oh my God, you got this, you're so strong because what I really believe is a cancer survivor and I have friends who have died from breast cancer by the way and they were younger than me. Um, you know, I just think it's not about how mentally strong you are. I think it's about the type of cancer you had and luck and if, if the chemo drugs that you're given are gonna work and if they work awesome, go forth and if they don't, you ****. Yeah, that's totally true. I totally agree with that. It definitely is. It's like there's different levels of the cancer and how it affects your cells and it is luck. The, the, the chemo works, it just suddenly clicks, it's an enzyme. It's, they're all reaction. So it works or it just kind of like chemicals in your body. But I guess the point that I'm making about resilience on the cancer journey is that you don't really know, you just have to trust and go forth and you, you can't sit there and blame yourself like, 00 my God, it's because I did this or I did that or if I was just a stronger person, you know, because that to me is not helpful thinking. So, you know, like, and like, so I just felt like I needed a plan because again, I like action. So once the hardest part for me was knowing I had cancer, but yet not yet having a plan. And there's a few when they're doing tests and you're getting, you know, your MRI and your pet scan and you're this and you're that and your biopsy and then they find something else and then they say to me you have two kinds of cancer and oh by the way, one's a really rare kind of cancer, you know, you have all that. But once you have a plan, then it's like, ok, we're gonna execute the plan and that's the way it is and you just focus on that. And so I never felt like why me, I never felt sad for myself. It was like, you know what **** happens to everybody. I've got a plan, I'm gonna execute the plan, we'll see what happens and I was lucky. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's amazing. Like, just from so from the time of you knowing you had cancer until you, the test and all of that was confirmed everything in a couple of weeks. Were you, like, did you still have that mindset from knowing from day one though, or is it something like? Ok, now I've got my plan. You, you, you started feeling like, ok, you know, what do I do? Like you started feeling resilient or like pushing through it after the two weeks, I definitely felt more like peace of mind. Once I had the plan my doctors on, I, I think all the uh not all the doctors handle it the same way, but my doctors basically, other than my obgyn who told me that my enlarged lymph node, which was the size of a golf ball was because of the COVID vaccine. She wanted me to wait and see what happened, which I would have literally died because I had had a clean mammogram and ultrasound three months prior, nothing. And by the time that I was diagnosed, my tumor was the size of almost a, a baseball anyway. And car did it. No, she, she there is evidence that COVID can create lymph nodes to enlarge, but I had had the vaccine two months before and she was wrong. And luckily I went and saw another, I got another opinion four days later and they took one look and they said it's not good. Um, and my doctor from the get go was like, this doesn't look good. So, I pretty much knew from the very first appointment before they did the test that it was cancer because she just said, yeah, it doesn't look. And then when they did the ultrasound, the radiologist said to me, uh, I'm sorry, but it looks really bad. It's not a good situation. Um, and so, you know, I, I kind of, I guess I was sort of prepared when they kept giving me more worse news because they had said to me in the very beginning it's not good. So it wasn't a shock as opposed to somebody goes in thinks it's perfectly fine. And then they get the, oh my God. Like what, like, so I do think the doctors prepped me. Well, and that's part of resilience too, I think is knowing kind of what's coming and being able to prep for it mentally and I was able to kind of go ok, I think I, I'm pretty sure it's cancer and now it's just a question of what kind, what the treatment's gonna look like. And I want to get all that ironed out. So I know. And then, you know, and they said to me, we're gonna throw as much as your body can take, like that will kill you because of the kind of cancer you have. So I, you know, so I had to have, you know, the full, you know, four different kinds of chemo drugs. Um, you know, radiation surgery infusions for a year. That kind of thing. But, um, but it, but it worked and so, you know, I think for me, the other piece of it was just distracting myself, you know, because I had, I had people that would be like, why are you still working? Why aren't you home with your family? Keep working. That's a good thing. Yeah, exactly. You're an, a person. So you need to. Exactly. I'm like, I need to be doing something and frankly, I need the distraction. Otherwise I'm gonna sit there and think about cancer all day. I don't wanna do that. No, it's great that you had your project and that um um Conscious Beauty came about like during that time. That's, that's, that's, that heals you his first. Ok? I gotta let, I have to put one dog outside so then separate them and now they're like, they wanna, so my husband's reaction when I told him I want to do that, he was like, are you crazy? You're going through chemo. This is not, go get your duck. Thank you. And so bring it in, bring in the duck, bring in here. He is. See, uh bring in the guy that's a little toy. That's cute. I know. Right. But that'll keep him busy. So, anyway, so, yeah, and I had to explain to my husband. No. You know, I know. You think I'm crazy for launching this when I'm going through cancer treatment. But I need to have something to do that is fulfilling for my, for me. And I understand you. I'm an anxious person too and drink before COVID. Like a few weeks. Luckily I lo I launched a podcast and that was the best thing I ever did. And I'm like, I have COVID was, it's great for me. The lockdown was fine. Yeah. And, well, that's the thing you are because you're always doing stuff. I feel like you're always like, hey, I'm, I have a meeting with so and so I, yeah, I'm the same as you. My love language is actions as well. Yeah. And so I, I think that's part of it. It's like what drives you as a person, what fulfills you. And I think it's harder to be resilient if you are somebody who kind of, I don't know, like needs validation from other people or I as opposed to just like keeping moving, just get things done, you know. So, and that's the thing I've, I've realized too is not, you know, if some of it is hard wired, but some of it is learned, you know, you can, you can, absolutely, you can learn to be resilient. You know, Lynn, I saw this book this by, is by Travis uh Bradbury. He wrote a book about emotional intelligence 2.0 and he actually said that people with a higher EQ have, are more resilient. So you're resilient is due to your EQ as well. You know, you're more tolerant of stress and you're, you're better at building relationships or, you know, which helps your resilience. All of that helps your resilience. Yeah. I think, I think that makes sense, you know. Um, so I just, yeah, I, but I think, I don't know, I, I do think it can be learned. I do think, I do think, um, do you think some people don't have it at all? Do you think some people have, like absence of resilience? Is it? Oh, I absolutely do. I mean, there are people that I've worked. I remember my very first job in advertising. There was a woman who was an account person like me, she used to cry almost every day. Hm. And I just was like, this is not the job for you. Oh my God. Like you literally are crying about random things every day. You didn't like the way somebody looked at you or the client didn't thank you or like, oh my God, you can't do this. And so I just think someone like that who's highly sensitive has got to find some other thing to do that, you know, that that was not. And I don't think she was resilient at all. I think, you know, may like. So I think, I think you can, I, I guess in her case it's about figuring out other um, ways that she can find fulfillment and not have the same pressure. I think that some people just jump back in so much. Right. Ok. There we go. Um, I think, I think, um, I think if you are somebody who is not a naturally resilient person, you stress out about a lot of things you take, you know, you're very sensitive, you're very sort of emotionally driven, then you just have to put yourself in an environment that is not gonna freak you out as much so that you can be more resilient because it's hard to be resilient if you are just naturally like, feel like everything's against you. And yeah, you need to know what environment you strive in. So it's like if you're aware of these things, I think, you know what I think it is as well, Lyn, like just like, you know, we met, what, 23 years ago now. Um Yeah, and just like seeing how you like how you work, what you do, um how you've like just talking with you now about how you've managed this year. And a lot of things I would say, like, I've been very much studying this topic of self awareness. You would probably be someone I would say is a, like a highly self-aware person and like, just with self awareness alone, I think a lot of people aren't resilient because they're not, they're not, they're not self aware. And, you know, even with the studies of self awareness. You know, like this lady, her name's Tasha Uri. She's a psychologist. She studied self awareness and she found that it's actually rare. Self awareness isn't a quality that people have. She's like less than 10% of people are self-aware. I'm shocked by that because I just assume that most people kind of are pretty self aware. Not. Um, so that's interesting. I hadn't thought of that. My daughter is incredibly self aware. She's really, really uh she's a really good communicator. She's really self aware. I've become more self aware, I think as I've sort of reflected on, like my leadership style, what I wanna do with my life. Cancer certainly makes you do that too because you have to look inside and kind of realize like, how do you want to spend your days and then when you go through something like we were talking earlier, you know, my brother died a few weeks ago. You know, you kind of that also makes you reflect and go, ok, life is short, you know, like, what do you want to be doing? And is it the stuff that lifts you up or are you doing stuff that doesn't, are you doing stuff because you feel you have to do it? Are you doing it to meet other people's expectations? Um But I think having that sort of understanding of what drives you is the starting point because there's so many people I know that are in jobs that they hate. Yeah. Absolutely. Just with those questions that you just asked yourself there, you know those questions that you just said, I know maybe for you right now you think, oh, these questions are everyone will ask, but these questions are actually written down in research papers that people who are self aware ask themselves. Really? So, yeah. So that's why like I'm gonna, I'm gonna send you the name of this book. But you're actually somebody that I would consider based on my research and what I've been doing and how many conversations and how much people that I've been, um, like, you know, dealing with and coaching and stuff. Uh I haven't, it's very rare for me to come across someone who's self aware. Maybe, maybe I've come across three if I'm telling you, honestly, that's really interesting. Well, uh, the thing that I found when I was working in advertising is that people were definitely not self war because, and this is more related to their jobs as opposed to them as humans. But a lot of times people would think like, oh, I'm a really good strategist and they were terrible or I'm really good at project management and it's like you can barely do a calendar invite, like, and so, uh like a lot of what I would end up doing, would you tell them? And I think leaders, you know, have to deal with this is I would try to make this person realize that with the job that they thought that they wanted to do that they were striving for is maybe not what they were suited for. And their skills were actually over here and some other area and sometimes people would look at that and they go, oh, yes. Oh, my God. Now it clicks but other times they would resist, they'd be like, no, no, no. I'm really, I really am a good strategist and that's where, and I'm like, no, you're really not. You really, you know, so it's, it's, um, it's an interesting journey to help people. Kind of figure that out for themselves too because, you know, you can, as a manager, you could just say, decide unilaterally, I'm gonna just move this person over to this other job. But unless they really internalize it and understand it and understand why they're doing it, then it's like it's not gonna help them. No, it's not. But, you know, I think, you know, just with, you know, self awareness, the, the thing is, is that there's like internal and external self-awareness if they need to have their internal self-awareness, but they can't get their external self awareness unless they hear perspective. Unless they tell someone tells them like yourself or like a leader or a boss says, hey, actually, no, your skills are better suited here. So they need to hear it. You need to be aware of it. You need to be able to receive it um for you to actually be considered self-aware completely. Yeah, that's true. Um So I think like that is part of leadership is taking the time to and not just look at people's skill sets on a functional level, but kind of dig a little deeper to really understand what makes people tick and where, and sometimes it's obvious you can really see, you know, when, when, when people um really light up at work and you see it and you're like, oh my God, that person really rocked it and then what was it that they were doing that? Oh my God. It's this other thing. And, and then when you have those examples, it's very easy to point them out and be like, oh my God, you did so good. But it was over in this other area and they're like, oh my God. Yeah, I did. And so, um, yeah. So you help people gain self awareness. That's great. Like, that's something that's, that's huge. That's like, that's exactly what you do I like. Yeah, that's amazing. So, and it's all of that resilience, all of what you do to be able to tolerate stress. All of that comes down to self awareness. That's all, all comes back to that. And if very little people, and it's a rarity that, you know, it, it, that explains why people aren't able to, you know, um, they're not emotionally mature, they're not their eq s like, you know, let go down. A lot of people are now saying that EQ is deteriorating. People are coming less and less emotionally are like, aware, like because of the thing is, you know, they're using social media as a way of people losing their, their EQ is going down. They're saying because of their, their more, you know, different cultures. Like I know a lot of I've seen some studies say like the US culture, for example, you know, a lot it's like said, I know in everywhere else but it, you know, it's very much the culture of self. So some people become like the youth, it's more like with the young generation technology now people becoming more self obsessed. So like they're self obsessed. Yeah, they're all about themselves. They're in their head doesn't mean they're self aware, doesn't mean they understand themselves or know themselves or how they're thinking or, you know, and they're not, they're losing resilience, they're losing uh connecting with people. They're losing many different like, skills and qualities of like, they're, they're what they're seeing on social media because they're not able to filter their feeds and like, cater it to like a healthy way because I'm not saying social media is bad. But they're, they're thinking relationships, people, humans behave and act certain ways and then they're just staying stuck in their own heads and they just, it's a very self obsessive kind of thing that's preventing self awareness I mean, that makes sense to me because also I think what happens, especially when you're a teenager because I saw this happen with my kids. You start to doubt your own voice because you see this social media telling you something else and you start to question. So, so you really do start to question things and then, you know, I think, um, sometimes it's hard to find your center because you, you have a lot of views from the outside telling you how you're supposed to look how you're supposed to think how you're supposed to behave and they may or may not align with your own views. And so you do have to kind of step back and it's hard, like a lot of people maybe just don't do that ever. No, they don't, they don't know how to step back. They don't know how to like, process and understand, you know, their thinking and behavior. The other thing too, you know, like people, a lot of people think, oh, the road to self-awareness is through introspection. Yes, it is. But through this study and like, they, they went through like 500 studies, they found that people are actually reflective incorrectly, they're introspective correctly. So like when they're reflective, they're sitting there asking themselves why questions. So like, why me, why this, why that? And so why questions were shown for you to deteriorate for you to spiral and like go into a negative depressive kind of mental state. Instead, they're saying people who are self aware, ask each other, what questions, what can I do here? How can I what and how questions or the questions that made people not feel stuck? Um made people feel like um empowered and that they could uh and show people with self awareness. I mean, that makes sense to me because those questions are more action questions, right? Like as opposed to the why you're never going to get the answers? You'll just sit there and ruminate on it. And that's, that's why I'm like, you know, people that are like, why me? Why did I get I, and I know people like this. Why did I get the answer? What did I do? It's like it doesn't matter and you, you'll never know the answer to that. Um And you just gotta move on and like, you know, and look, maybe, maybe I'm also in a way I was gonna say fortunate is the wrong word, but I'm not religious, right? So like I don't live, I don't sit there, I don't sit there and think like there's a higher power that did this to me. Yeah, because I did something bad and I'm being punished and other people do that. They have this thought process where it's like God hates me. And I'm like, like it is nothing to do with that. But I think if you're ingrained to believe that that's hard to reset your brain to not believe that if you know what I mean? Yeah. Do you think too though, like, your resilience and your things? So, like I look at it like, it's not just genetic and it's just like, you know, like you said, it's maybe due to your, you're an actions person but also like your support network. Like I would say your husband and your family, you get a great, you have a great support network with you, right? Do you think resilience you for you to be resilient? It's like you, it's like correlated with having a great support network as in like a stronger family or partner or so on or you think you can be resilient without it. I think you can be resilient without it. But having the support is icing on the cake. Yeah, because I think if you have a great support system, but you're not a resilient person, it doesn't matter. You will crumble anyway. Um Now having the support system and having people that, you know, show up for you is great. And even if like you're not somebody who necessarily needs it, it's still so nice and helpful. I found it really surprising when I had cancer or how many people. Well, there were two surprises. One on the good side was people that I didn't really talk to for years came out of the woodwork and reconnected and I've reconnected with some friends that I haven't seen in a long time. I had one friend who's a really old friend from Chicago. She came out to Palm Springs a couple weeks ago. I hadn't seen her in a while. That was awesome. Like, really, really good. Um, and then on the flip side, there are people that I would have said to you before that they were great friends of mine and they just completely disappeared. They didn't show up but they didn't show up. And I've, I've also learned not to take that personally because I figured out maybe it is about resilience or self awareness at the end of the day for them, but they can't deal with it. They don't know what to say, they don't know what to do. And so they just, just shut down and don't want to communicate. So what is your feel like, what is your take on that? Do you still consider these people like good friends or are you, are you or because I, uh you know, you're speaking, I can kind of uh resonate on this with you right now because both of my grandmas passed away last year and one of them was like, basically my mother, she was like three months ago, she passed away. She was like my, she was my mum. That's where I got my unconditional love. And I did notice with death like people that want to hang out all the time or people that want to talk all the time, usually like, hey, Tiff, let's do this or what they call you or whatever or whatever. Like, they just disappeared. It's like what you wanna hang out and have fun with me, but you can't be there for me. You can't send me a message or call, you know what I mean? I do. I know exactly what you mean and, and I, and I realize though that a lot of people, most people really don't know what to say. The other thing that I've realized going through the situation with my brother because I literally saw him over three weeks go from a relatively healthy person to dead. Um Is that the way that the hospitals and people think about death and talk about it? It's like we brush it under the rug. You know what I mean? Like nobody really wants to have an open conversation about it. So it's really confusing and it's really hard and to see him sort of mentally process. Wait a minute, I'm not going home. What do you mean? I'm like, what? And then it was like, wait, I have to go into hospice. Wait, what does that mean? And it's like, wait, you're so you're telling me and then they're like, oh, so you wanna make me sign ad nr which means I'm done? OK? And now you wanna give me comfort care, which is morphine which, and you know, so it's just that whole thing but they never, they just talk about it. Like, I don't know, like, it's taking a Tylenol, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, it's nothing, it's like you're going for a walk in the park. Like, it's like, yeah. Well, my point more is that because our society doesn't really have these open dialogues around that. A lot of people don't know how to deal with it when they're, when you're going through an adversity or a death or sickness or something. There are some people that are really good, maybe they've dealt with it before, maybe they just have an empathy towards it towards it. And then I had, like I said, I had friends that just completely like ghosted me, some of them have come back around now that I'm healthy and I'm through the other side. What do you feel about that? What do you feel about them coming back around now? Uh You know what, I was annoyed at first, but then I realized, you know what I'm ok with it because everyone processes this **** differently and I don't, you know, just because they had a hard time knowing how to respond or whatever. It's, it's OK. Um Because I do have like one good friend in particular who literally like disappeared and then, and then now all of a sudden it's like, you know, I hear from her every month and it's like we're back to like a normal cadence of communication. But I think it was also like, now that I'm healthy, it's like, oh, ok. Now it's good now I can go, you know. Um, yeah, I mean, I have, I've talked to other cancer survivors who have literally dissolved friendships over this because they just felt like, are you kidding me? Like, you couldn't be there during, like, the worst time? Yeah. I don't get, like, for me it's like, because I'm somebody who is there for people. For me, it's like you just have to sit there. You, you just have to be present. You can even just sit there and hold my hand. You don't like you can sit there and just be there and we talk about other things but just you can just be there or you can just call me and we can, it's just showing that you just, you're just there. So that's what I think people don't realize like they think that they have to say something magical or special. But if they just reach out and say, how are you? You know what I mean? Like just checking in. Exactly. That's all it is. No, you're not, you're not sitting there talking about death or you're not talking about like this like, oh my God, like I'm so sorry. I know all you have to do is just say, hey, how are you doing? That's all just an acknowledgement. I mean, I have another, I have a friend whose daughter had committed suicide a couple of years. Ago. And she said the same thing happened to her where people just, like, didn't talk to her because they didn't know what to say and all she wanted was for somebody to just acknowledge. Oh, I'm so sorry you had to go through this. That's it. Just like, holy crap. That must suck. I can't imagine. I'm so sorry. You know, like, just something to acknowledge that, like, your feelings are validated and she told me it was really hard for a lot of people to do that. Like, yeah, that simple thing for like some of us. Well, I think for people because like, like I just told you that study most people are not self-aware. That's what it all comes down to. They're not self-aware. So they can't even do this bare minimum for some of us. So it's like something simple but it's because of there's no self awareness. Like I've been like on this like kind of uh I would say this last 12 months, I'm like, you know what I want to find self-aware people. I be around more self-aware people. Like I'm like, I wanna create, you know what I was like, I wanna create an event and you're only allowed to go to this event. If you're self aware, you have to be evaluated. If you're not self-aware, you're not allowed to attend the event. Because when you're around self-aware people, you automatically feel safe, you can connect, you can build stronger better healthier relationships. That's really interesting. I mean, I do think, yeah, I think those people are more the, the ones to pick up on nuances to pick up on moods to be, you know, doing, you know, checking in, doing that, that kind of stuff for, for sure. Um, but, but on the flip side sometimes I feel people that are overly self aware can be overly emotional because they're so tuned into every little thing, you know? No, but that's the opposite. That's, that was like if they are overly emotional, they're not self aware. Oh, maybe that's true. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, that's the, that's the thing. That's the thing. Um Lynn, I love talking to you. I just like, I love where this conversation went. I love like just connecting with you. Yeah, I, I'm so grateful to meet a self person. I never really realized I was, but now you are, trust me. I'm gonna send you this book. I'm gonna send you the name of this book and you read it. You and yeah, you feel it's, it's exactly that. How is the conversation? You know how Lynn? I love to ask all my guest speakers, how is the conversation with me right now? Made you reflect or highlight anything to you? I love it because it's exactly what I think your intention is, which is to make us step back and think a little bit more, right? Like, like get to know ourselves a little bit more, ask different questions, um reflect a little bit on our life and that I think is exactly what you do, which I'm grateful for. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So where can people find conscious collective beauty and, and Masami and all the above? So OK, Massay is love Massay hair on all of our social channels, which is pretty much everywhere or love massy dot com and it's Love Ma S Ami dot com and then Conscious Beauty Collective. You can follow us on Instagram at Conscious Beauty Collective Shop. We're gonna be in Riverside California from April 1st to the end of June and then we're moving somewhere else. Oh, perfect. OK, great listeners. You guys check that out. I'm gonna put all that in the description. So you'll be able to be notified when that's happening. Thank you. Thank you. Great to talk with you. Thank you for listening to get to know you. If you enjoy this podcast, rate review and share the podcast on Facebook or Instagram, you can tag me at, get to know you podcast in my mission to open conversations, access deeper dialogue. I want to hear from you listeners. The question again, how do you gain resilience? Leave an audio video or a message on the Facebook or Instagram page of your response to today's question, including your name and where you're from. We'll include some different responses in next week's. Get to know you cafe to further deepen dialogue on this topic. If you have any topics you would like us to discuss, be sure to tag me to post with your question. 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